1849 Colt 31 cal for self defence?

[Coot]

I've never heard that the 45ACP started out as a BP cartridge. Can anyone verify this?

As far as I can tell, the 45ACP has always been a smokeless powder cartridge. Perhaps is has been confused with the 45 Long Colt used in single action army revolvers - the 45 Long Colt started life as a black powder cartridge.

 

[ghostdncr]

In many cases, merely producing a handgun of any type will bring about a "cessation of hostilities" without terminal ballistics ever being brought into play. And should events not play out in that fashion, I feel fairly certain no one has ever felt better after being shot with one of the little .31 guns.

 

[Coot]

In the days before modern drugs, a slow painful death from infection might be all of the threat needed for a small caliber handgun to be an effective defense. Not so much with today's medical options.

 

[SOLANCO]

.357 Unmentionable in the night stand. First round the hammer will drop on is .38 spcl. Magnums fill the rest of the cylinder. The milder .38 just to get me fully awake.
Before retirement I carried a .45ACP Combat Commander into Philadelphia every day. Gang bangers liked to spray and pray with double stacked 9mms. I figured I could put two center mass before they could ever hit me.

 

[F.G. Ford]

As far as I can tell, the 45ACP has always been a smokeless powder cartridge. Perhaps is has been confused with the 45 Long Colt used in single action army revolvers - the 45 Long Colt started life as a black powder cartridge.

The .45 acp. was never a BP cartridge, and I'm sure we will get in trouble here if we keep this discussion going.
It is well after the cut off date of this forum.
Thank you moderators for your patience.

 

[Dale Lilly]

-----what kind of popcicle was on the stick--I wanna know----- :idunno:

Banana ... hands down

 

[Brokenbear]

Well I think you put your finger on it, no body wants to get shot, even a little bit. With the state of medicine of that era a .22 was about as deadly as a .44, it just took a week longer to get there. They were carried more for a threat than for a shootout.
But today there are much better choices available. Consider that one is legally justified in shooting only if the opponent represents an imminent threat, such as weapon in hand. Do you really want to shoot them with something that for sure will not put an instant end to the threat? Personally I'd go for more power.
Then there is the reliability issue. I very rarely have a misfire with C&B revolvers that I have tuned up and loaded but I have never found a 100% solution to spent cap jams. What may be only an inconvenience on the range can get you killed in a fight. Power is good, accuracy is nice, but 100% reliability is paramount in a defensive weapon and I've never found that with cap&ball revolvers.
If I faced an altercation when I happened to be carrying a C&B revolver I would not feel unarmed, but if I expected trouble I would for sure be carrying a modern firearm.

A by product of percussion cap shortages is ...roll your own percussion caps and the dies to do so and in that process ..interestingly double walled aluminum cans and single wall BRASS percussion caps do not disintegrate under heavy heavy loads in 44's to 31's
Now I shoot Colts and I do not do the magnum shuffle but I did try one round of cylinders full of T7 3F and it is hotter by a good scratch than my normal 14 grains (memory was right at 17 grains by volume) with no wad and round ball (paper cartridge bee's wax dipped to bottom of the ball) out of a Colt 3rd gen 1849 pocket
This was done with 5 double walled aluminum home rolled percussion caps ...every spent cap was in place on the nipples and had to be 2 finger off
So yes ..I think one could get a super tuned and munitions coordinated C & B to just dang near semi auto reliability ..just not quite up to a modern wheel gun ..yet!

Bear

 

[Hiddeninsmoke]

I've never heard that the 45ACP started out as a BP cartridge. Can anyone verify this?

.45 caliber ammunition comprises bullets (approximately 0.45 inch in diameter), first standardized by Colt's Patent Firearms Manufacturing Company in 1872.

That original .45 Colt round was developed along with the Colt Single Action Army revolver for the U.S. Army.

The .45-70 cartridge followed the next year, developed at the Army's Springfield Armory for the breech-loading Springfield Model 1873 rifle.

The .45 ACP is a cartridge designed by John Browning in 1904, for use in the prototype Colt semi-automatic .45 pistol he also designed. This ammunition also served the M1911 pistol adopted by the Army in 1911.

 

[Rifleman1776]

In many cases, merely producing a handgun of any type will bring about a "cessation of hostilities"

Exactly. And my personal experience three times in my life. Really.

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

I've never heard that the 45ACP started out as a BP cartridge. Can anyone verify this?

no... . .45 colt was BP- 40gr of fine powder under a 250gr bullet. .45 ACP was developed in the early 1900's, only with smokeless. The auto cartridge was intended to replicate the ballistics of the .45 schofield/1860 colt/1858 remington. The .45 Colt was intended to be a light carbine round out of a pistol lol.

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

I am interested to add a 1849 colt replica to my collection. Like the looks and feel of them. They seem to be quite concealable and I could see that people were carring them. Can't find much about how the compare ballistic wise with a modern cartidge and stopping powder. Where the enough for self defence. I know pocket pistols in 22 short were popular as were 25 autos later on, but personally, I think I would prefer a good sized knife over a 22 short....
So whats about the 31 roundball from a revolver....

with a round ball, it's around a .25 auto, but with a larger diameter/lighter projectile, leading to less penetration. Colt usually shipped these with a mold that had a ball (for practice) and a 80(?) gr bullet (for more serious stuff). With the chamber loaded up to the max with fine powder, and a 80ish gr bullet, you have something akin to a .32 acp or .32 Long colt in power. Not going to go elephant hunting with it, but for what it was meant for, it's enough. Virtually all of the BPC that came out up to the late 1880's were an attempt to replicate loadings in ML and chamber loading firearms, but in a convenient brass cased, self contained cartridge.

 

[wb78963]

A .31 caliber ball applied to the tear duct of a threat should work. A .22LR applied there works so a ball should work a treat.

 

[wb78963]

not my first choice but better than a sharp stick

Mark from Eras Gone Bullet molds testing.
hold center
Bunk

 

[Gee Dog]

Good vid. Impressive performance. A little surprised. Eighty grain cons clearly the way to go.

 

[sheriff john]

Somewhere, I recall reading that the average person long ago was somewhat smaller than today. Even with my small hands, my 1849 pocket model won't allow a normal grip due to it's size. Gentleman I shot with in the early 70's shot his .31 into a log in a friend's basement. Ball bounced back and hit him in the noggin. Also filled the room with pistol smoke from what I was told.

Everything considered, the 1949 Colt pocket model is, to my jaded eyes, one of the best-proportioned designs of the era. It's simply a "neat little gun" that friends enjoy looking at and handling now that I've gotten it back from a gunsmith, assembled properly and a broken part replaced.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I remember watching a W. C. Fields movie. "My Little Chickadee" or "You Can't Cheat an Honest Man" ??? He was a gambler on a riverboat and up to his usual mischief. While not any sort of documentation, it is an example of carrying a pair of pocket pistols. He had a pair of them that he literally carried in his pockets. In one of the scenes where he pulled them out, you could not see that he had a pair of pistols in his trousers' pockets. Certainly one of the reasons that the pocket pistols were popular was the fact that they were easy to carry.

I seem to recall that some trouser pockets were leather lined to better contain the little revolvers.

 

[nightwolf1974]

Best BP revolver for self defense? NONE!!! The ONLY C&B revolver that ever come close is a Ruger Old Army! Even when I carry a holstered C&B revolver hunting, I carry something more modern and combat proven designed by JMB.

 

[Snapshot in Norway]

The 49 Colt pocket was the most sold percussion model ewer, I think I`ve heard around 340000 samples?
Correct me if am wrong. A soft shooting pocket pistol, that would get new shooters on the right track?
I`d belief I would even make my wife shoot Black Powder if I had that litle gem of a revolver. Yeah I want one!