1851 Colt Navy Revolver

[dennis benedict]

I need help with my 1851 Colt Navy revolver. I had put in a new hand and spring and the gun will let me cycle the cylinder one time and not after that. The cylinder seems to lock up and won't re-cycle to the next chamber. This is the first time I had replaced this part. Another question, is there a book that explains how to put a cap and ball revolver back together. I have taken this gun apart a number of times for cleaning but never the insides. Thank you for your help. Dennis B.

 

[crockett]

Sounds like the hand is stuck in its upward position- do you have the spring in correctly?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Why did you have to replace the first hand? Is the replacement hand from the same maker that produced the revolver? Were there any burrs on the new hand? Is the new hand of the same dimensions as the old one? There a few ways this can go wrong.

 

[Zonie]

penn.45
It sounds like the cylinder stop is not releasing.

When you put the trigger/cylinder stop spring in the pointed ends of it should be pressing against the trigger and cylinder stop. You might want to check it to see if it was installed upside down.

Another thing that can cause problems when you replace the hand is it may be too long and be binding up?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

These are the two most likely causes. The replacement hands, even from the gun's manufacturer, are often a little long to allow for final fitting. Some might feel that this is a job for a gunsmith.

 

[crockett]

Russ- I don't know the answer on this one but maybe you or someone else does. I always thought the top of the hand pushed the cylinder all the in to battery but someone said what actually happens is the top of the hand stops contacting the racket on the cylinder about 2/3rd of the way and the side of the hand finishes the job. Off hand this doesn't seem to make sense to me because the side of the hand can't exert any more rotational force on the cylinder than the top but I'm just stating something I was told.
On the problem at hand, if the tail on the bolt broke or is out of line- won't that also potentially cause a lock up- in other words in cocking the hammer if the cam can't engage the bolt, the bolt will just stay up in battery.

 

[Tinker2]

Another thing that can cause problems when you replace the hand is it may be too long and be binding up?

Also
If the hand is to short the cylinder stop can lock again before the hand can move the cylinder



Tinker2

 

[dennis benedict]

Thank you everybody for your help. I am sending back the parts kit that the hand came in to Cabelas. I to think that the hand was too long. I held it up to the original hand that broke and the new hand was a bit too long. I also checked the hand in my 1860 Army and that hand was broke as well. These guns are old and were used a lot. I am going to try VTI company and see what they can do for me. Thanks again. Dennis.

 

[mykeal]

Save yourself some aggravation and get out the needle files. Reshape the hand to the proper dimensions. You may get lucky and get a hand that's just right and you may not, but it's really the luck of the draw. Changing suppliers won't help. Aftermarket parts are almost always a bit oversize to allow for individual fitting. It's a part of the game.

 

[crockett]

Mykeal is right, the hands are almost always too long. I thought it was on purpose so you could take down (file) the hand until the gun timed correctly.

 

[Darkfold]

I always thought the top of the hand pushed the cylinder all the in to battery but someone said what actually happens is the top of the hand stops contacting the racket on the cylinder about 2/3rd of the way and the side of the hand finishes the job. Off hand this doesn't seem to make sense to me because the side of the hand can't exert any more rotational force on the cylinder than the top but I'm just stating something I was told.

"Someone" is right, the final "push" into place comes from the side of the hand. See David R. Chicoine's Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West, "Revolver Hands and Ratchets" beginning on page 107.

 

[crockett]

Thanks, that was my recollection, the reason being is that where ever I read/got the information- the issue was if the hand had excess side to side play in it's slot- that could effect the final rotation on the cylinder- in other words the hand had to be the proper distance on top but it also had to fit tight enough in the slot so that when the side of the hand pushed on the racket there wasn't any wobbling, etc.
That said- I don't know if that solves the issue of the revolver freezing in a locked position. It seems the hand is either stuck in the upper position or the tail on the bolt broken and the hammer has nothing to depress the bolt.

 

[skywarp]

Mykeal is right, the hands are almost always too long. I thought it was on purpose so you could take down (file) the hand until the gun timed correctly.

This is my understanding too.

To the OP: they're easy to fit, if you just remove a little bit at a time. It takes a while because you have to keep trying it out.

Also as mentioned make sure the bolt (cylinder stop) is installed and interfacing with the hammer correctly.

A common problem with these Italian guns is that the bolt is too big to fit into the cylinder notches. That could in theory cause the problem you describe. As the bolt wore the cylinder notches bigger, it was moving further up into them and the rear of it was coming down too far, eventually being out of time with the hand. Kind of hard to describe, but it happened to me when I fit the bolt on my 1851.

The rear of the bolt actually popped out of place and the whole gun locked up.