1851 Confederate Navy .44 - Brass Frame and loads??

[Pilgrim64]

I got the 1851 Navy Reb .44 for Xmas and like the gun alot.

I am interested in how the brass frame will hold up and what loads folks are shooting. I am using 25gr Pyrodex with the .454 ball. Will 40 gr. wear the frame out?

The book says not to go above 15gr and not to use wads - I am interested in opinions on this.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I got the 1851 Navy Reb .44 for Xmas and like the gun alot.

I am interested in how the brass frame will hold up and what loads folks are shooting. I am using 25gr Pyrodex with the .454 ball. Will 40 gr. wear the frame out?

The book says not to go above 15gr and not to use wads - I am interested in opinions on this.

Use only 25 grains since it's a brass frame model. The .454's should work as well--just make sure that some lead is shaved off of the balls as you load them. The best accuracy is obtained when the balls are closer to the chamber mouths, so I would use 2-3 wonder-wads to bring the balls higher in the cylinder.

Going with the recommended 15 grains is a joke. Other than some legal reason I can't figure why they even do it! Black powder needs to be compressed for best results, so you want to use enough of something (wads or cereal) so the loading lever has something to do pressure wise! Uniform pressure results in uniform seating to each ball which in turn lowers your sdv.

As to your inquiry about 40 grains: I wouldn't do it at all. Save that level of charge for your NEXT revolver, say a 3rd Model Dragoon or if you really want to make a blast buy a Walker so you can load 50-55 grains and a wonder-wad in that HUGE cylinder! On the other hand, if you consider this specimen to just be a $100.00 experiment, go ahead and load it up and shoot it loose, for the choice is yours alone. There's a reason that the thing costs only $100.00, so IMHO I wouldn't "push-it" by using 40 grains...just enjoy it for what it is and don't try to make it something it was never intended to be--a MAGNUM!

Have fun and make smoke and may you get hooked into buying more than one example of C&B revolver :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[Rebel]

I just got the same gun. I have tried loads from 20-35 grs of Goex 3f with no problems but i would not use the hotter loads very often.I just did it once to see how it shot. Mine shoots really good with 20 grs of 3f and 20 grs. of Cream of Wheat for a filler. It put 3 shots in a group of 1" center to center at 20 yds with that load. More accurate then the hotter loads. And yes you can use Wonder Wads in it with no problem.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

There you go! Good shooting and a fine example as well! 20 grains of C.O.W. means 2-3 wonder-wads just like I said! Nice shooting and thanks for posting & have a great New Year too!

Dave

 

[Pilgrim64]

Thanks everyone for the comments. Elmer Keith in one of his book mentions making sure the roundball is as near the top as possible when loading for better accuracy with this type pistol. The originals .36 had a reputation of being very accurate. Just bought #11 caps and the fit perfect also.

 

[Zonie]

Pilgrim64
Just my cheap side showing but with the price of Wonder Wads I suggest using some Cream of Wheat or some old fashioned corn meal as a filler.

Yes, it's a bit more work, what with the measuring and so forth but those Wonder Wads sure are expensive.

With a brass frame pistol keeping the powder loads down in the 20-25 grain level should make the pistol last a long time.

Happy shooting. :grin:

 

[Pilgrim64]

Can you explain the loading process with the creme of wheat? 20-25gr of powder, then add the C.O.W on top of that, then press your ball in ? or do you put a patch of some sort in between the gun powder and C.O.W?

 

[OLDPUPPYMAX]

I received a single leaf of paper with my 1851 Confederate .44, stating that as the pistol has a brass frame, no more than 25 gr of black powder should be used. And employ an appropriate amount of Pyrodex. That works out to 20 grains volume.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Can you explain the loading process with the creme of wheat? 20-25gr of powder, then add the C.O.W on top of that, then press your ball in ? or do you put a patch of some sort in between the gun powder and C.O.W?

You said it right the first time as is stated above in your own post! No patch or anything else is required. Just make sure not to mix the black powder into the C.O.W. as you pour the C.O.W. on top of the powder. Then apply the ball and ram the ball down to compress the whole thing. Rebel said his formula was based upon a max loading of 40 grains by volume, so I'd base my loads upon that, I.E.: 25 grains of real black, then 15 grains of cereal over that, and then the ball. A dab of lube over the top of the balls in dry weather wouldn't be a bad idea either :wink: .

Elmer Keith was one of the most knowledgeable pistol shooters ever! I would have loved to meet him, shoot with him and buy him dinner and get him tanked-up just to listen to the stories he could tell :thumbsup:

Dave

 

[Rebel]

With the Cream of Wheat i put it in a small bottle with a small screw off top. Then i load the chamber with whatever powder load i am using, then pour the COW from the bottle into the chamber until full or near full. Then set a rd ball on top and ram it home. The COW compresses enough to let the ball seat just below the mouth of the cylinder that way. :thumbsup: Quicker that way than measuring them both out.

 

[RADeO]

Pilgrim64, I agree with Zonie regarding the use of cornmeal as filler. It is more compressible than Cream of Wheat. C.O.W. is rather hard, and you need to "short-fill" the chambers by about 1/4" to allow the balls to be seated easily. With cornmeal, just fill each chamber to the top, then seat the balls just below the chamber mouths.

With a brass-framed revolver I'm thinking you won't want to stress it any more than absolutely necessary, which is why I recommend the cornmeal. We're not talking a whole lot of money invested for filler here, so try them both. Heck, you can always eat the rest of the product you don't shoot! :haha:

 

[Blizzard of '93]

that is the revolver one of my nephews owns. he has fired some 'max' loads out of it loading round ball over about 30gr #F but just for accuracy testing, this load isn't as tight grouping as a 22 gr load of 3F with a .32acp case of cornmeal atop to raise the level of the ball in the chamber. still fairly powerful plenty for small game or even 2 legged critters if need arises. after 100's of shots and likely over 1000 no detectable wear on his pistol. welcome to the pistol page and good shooting :hatsoff:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

You know better than I because I don't use fillers...I use only 3Fg and tend to get really accurate loads with it. But then I don't own any brass framed revolvers either. If I did I would use cereal as well, to get the balls up close to the chamber mouths where they belong.

As long as you're consistent (and from 3K or more miles away I can tell that you are, based on your results and groups :grin: ) the shooter can employ techniques that save time and make sense as well, such as those you've illustrated with the C.O.W.

Dave

 

[Rebel]

Well it proves the gun is capable of shooting good. I can't do that all the time. Wish i could though. :haha: But the eyes aren't as good as they once were. But i been shooting revolvers since i was 13 and i have practiced with them a lot so even now i can shoot a good group occasionally.

 

[Charley Hart]

Agreed with the above. Stay away from 40.

I got just about every revolver and have loaded 40 only once. Yes it kicked like a SOB in my 1858 STEEL rem, but not worth the wasted powder and the extra recoil.

25 is max in a brassie. I shoot 30 standard in all of my steel 44s.

 

[Pilgrim64]

Shot my 1851 Brass Navy .44 yesterday and true to what I read on all 6 rounds they were high at 25 yards - I have to wonder at what distance are they dead on - 40-50 yards? I used CCI #11 caps with nice clean chambers and 25gr of Pyrodex - all 6 went off real nice. I will be sticking with 25gr I believe.

 

[Rebel]

Guess i got lucky with mine as it was only about 4" high at 20 yds. It is easy to replace the front sight as it is just pressed in. You could get you a small piece of brass rod about the same diameter and with a little filing fit it in place of the original. Leave it a bit taller and then file it down to where you need it. I didn't like the small bead because i had trouble seeing it so i made a brass blade sight for mine like the ones on the '60 Army. Works much better for me and looks fine too.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I've been a Wheelgunner my entire shooting life. I do own autos, but a revolver is second nature to me, no matter it's type of ignition/propulsion from .22 to .44 Mag.

During the NRA Muzzleloading Pistol Qualification Matches we have to shoot strong-hand only at 50 yards distance! That target keeps getting smaller LOL :rotf: and I wind-up aiming at the bottom of the target frame to hit the ten-X ring, especially with the Walker and a 52 grain charge!

Dave

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Agreed with the above. Stay away from 40.

I got just about every revolver and have loaded 40 only once. Yes it kicked like a SOB in my 1858 STEEL rem, but not worth the wasted powder and the extra recoil.

25 is max in a brassie. I shoot 30 standard in all of my steel 44s.

an empty 7.62X39 case (AK or AK cartridge) is a good 'hot' powder measure for a remmy loaded with a slug, leaves just enough room for a felt over powder then Lee mold slug, it's around 30grs 3F.

 

[madcratebuilder]

The original Colts had a 75 yard zero. Replicas are based on the originals and should be close to that. You can add taller front sight or machine a deeper notch in the hammer to bring the zero into 25 yards.