Brass Frame 1851s

[45D]

Sure, and bolting on a shortened or thinned second spring to make things work like they were designed is easy. Easier than most other options. If you're gonna shoot 10k rounds through a pistol it may be worth adding a bunch of other stuff to it and leaving the weak spring. Or, after 10k rounds you could probably just drop in another hammer and trigger.

Nice to have options.

Yep, but that's not what most folks want. Most folks want a revolver to run and do it reliably. The "mystique" of the open-top revolvers runs deep and likewise, they want their open-top revolvers to be as reliable as a Ruger. That's what I concentrate on. I just happen to be making a Dragoon into a Bear gun next week . . . there's something for everybody . . .
You are definitely right, options are always good to have and if you can get it done, by all means make yourself happy.

Mike

 

[Dark Angel]

I'm quite certain the imprinting is from shooting but the loosening of the arbor thread I believe is aggravated by the off center cantilever pressure from the loading lever operation.

Always loaded my 'original' brass frame Confederate Colt .36 with the cylinder on the frame., Never had any issues that is unless you count internal parts failure, the cylinder bolt, but I always thought that was due to the revolver's age, at the time I owned it, pushing 100 year sold. And, YES, I did shoot an original Confederate Colt but only after it had been gone over by a competent gunsmith. Kept my loads to 15-17g. At 15-20 yards, it was accurate enough. Grouped 6 shots in a 4-inch area, if I remember correctly. (After all, that was almost 60 years ago!)

 

[SPQR70AD]

I have customer that tried to double the hammer spring to stop cap sucking and the hammer bouncing to the half cock notch. He tried changing nipples, doubling the hammer tension and none of that worked. A cap post and action shield solved the problem. I set the hammer pull to 4.5 lbs, enough to pop caps and still be able to cock the thing without breaking your thumb.

I always thought one way to lessen cap jams was after firing raise the gun straight up while cocking it. that allowed the cap to fall out. I have even seen people in movies doing that and many guys using the pistols. seems like no body does it anymore

 

[Malamute]

Apparently not because they had different caps,...

Mike

what did an 1850's Percussion cap look like? I wonder if the original percussion caps even blew apart like ours now days do. I want to think they acted like they do when I put a cap collar on them. There is no Cap jam with a collar. But they add a whole bunch of time in loading and reloading.

Can those springs simply be reshaped and re-tempered to increase the the hammer tension? It seems to me that just straightening the spring a bit would increase the the hammer force considerable?

The stronger the main, the more wear on the lock (doubled or not).

As for originals, they probably did. They more than likely didn't shoot for "fun" like we do.
Fast forward to today, we have shooting sports, competitions and such. In order to do that the copies, powder, caps, lubes, are "todays" so that's what we have to deal with. Cowboy shooters want speed . . . heavy springs aren't conducive to speed. Probably the European market thinks the same way so that's what Uberti caters to. Easier to ADAPT to what we have today unless you can supply the market with what YOU think it should be . . .
I find it's easier to work with what we have available . . .

Mike

Caps. The caps available in the Civil War period were specific to the type gun. Eleys mentioned it on the label. It was the subject of a letter from Major R. H. K. Whitely from the New York Arsenal on July 5 1862 to Brigadier General Ripley, Chief of the Ordnance Department, "First, a cap suitable for Colt's pistol does not suit Savages or Starrs, because the mainspring is too weak to explode it.

Second, a cap suitable for Savages or Starrs does not suit Colts, because the hammer drives it in pieces, a fragments often lodges in front of the cock, and renders the arm useless after the first fire. On this account our spies carry two pistols, and have had to depend on the second for safety for the reason above stated. Therefore, I am compelled to have two qualities made, one for the Colts, answering in thickness of copper to the Eleys Double Waterproof, and the other for Savages and Starrs Eleys metal-lined."

Ripley forwarded the letter to Major W. A. Thornton at the West Troy Arsenal and requested that "Please see that all revolvers made for this department are suited to fire the same caps as Colts Army pistols"

Yes, caps were different, made specifically for Colts pistols in the day. Today, we have generic caps basically, and its what we have to live with. Ive come across a few caps of some unremembered brand that didnt fragment when fired and save them for the 1860 I have handy for serious duty, like going out in my underwear to check sprinklers or feed birds,

The methods developed over time to improve the pistols functional reliability with the available caps is intriguing and heartening, in that its not just a given now that "percussion colts jam with broken caps pieces, thats just how it is". We are learning more about them all the time, with Mike and others figuring out the quirks and kinks to make them more reliable and improve them.

I came into a uberti SAA type revolver, the hammer spring was not particularly strong. Its ben discussed in various places that the Ubertis were known for weak hammer springs and firing pin hits. the Starline site even mentions it. I considered finding a factory spring from a Colt SAA to buy or trade into, as many put weaker springs in them. In looking around the Colt and cowboy shooter forums the idea of tweeking the existing spring surfaced and I recalled a known pistolsmith tweeking S&W mainsprings to get the DA pull he wanted. He used a wedge, back and forth a bit until satisfied. Th guns hadnt shown any tendency to either misfire or break springs after such work (that was only one small aspect of the overall action work). It doesnt take much to change the feel.

I took the backstrap off the gun and removed the mainspring. I re-installed it behind the hammer, then clamped the spring to the front strap right above the screw with a crescent wrench so the tweeking wasnt stressing the screw hole, and carefully bent the spring rearward until it was about 3/16-1/4" behind the hammer, then re-installed it back under the roller. It noticeably increased tension. I have no way currently to measure the hammer pull to compare. Im primarily a field user, Im concerned with functional reliability first, other things can be worked with to improve action feel, but soft springs isnt a part of any of mine. YMMV of course. If I someday wear out the hammer, Ill cross that bridge when I come to it, but I believe its certainly not more tension than any of the factory Colt SAAs Ive had in the distant past.

 

[M. De Land]

I have customer that tried to double the hammer spring to stop cap sucking and the hammer bouncing to the half cock notch. He tried changing nipples, doubling the hammer tension and none of that worked. A cap post and action shield solved the problem. I set the hammer pull to 4.5 lbs, enough to pop caps and still be able to cock the thing without breaking your thumb.

I make and use a sear lift instead of weakening the a hammer spring tension for less trigger pull weight and to eliminate creep. Works great on pistol or rifle. Here is an example I installed on a trapdoor rifle hammer. Same principle as set trigger adjustment which maintains both sear nose and full cock angles but limits engagement depth.
This is the one installed on the Walker.