1851 sear issues

[snubnose57]

Rescued a fancy brass framed 1851 sheriff. Needed a new trigger and sear. Made in Italy, stamped PR on the bottom of the grip frame. Bought one of each off Ebay. After installation, at half cock, the hammer falls when the trigger is pulled. Also, at half cock, if you push the hammer by hand, it will not budge. Disassembled again, the tip of the sear fits as it should, no filing needed. Reassembled, the issue still exists. I am stumped by this.
As bought separate, not sure of the maker of the trigger or hammer.

 

[desi23]

Rescued a fancy brass framed 1851 sheriff. Needed a new trigger and sear. Made in Italy, stamped PR on the bottom of the grip frame. Bought one of each off Ebay. After installation, at half cock, the hammer falls when the trigger is pulled. Also, at half cock, if you push the hammer by hand, it will not budge. Disassembled again, the tip of the sear fits as it should, no filing needed. Reassembled, the issue still exists. I am stumped by this.
As bought separate, not sure of the maker of the trigger or hammer.

Something is very wrong here, there should be no way to pull the trigger and get the sear to come out of the half-cock notch. Since you say the sear fits outside the gun have you checked to see how they align when assembled in the gun? If the parts were made by a different manufacturer the hole spacing and/or length of the trigger may be off. That could result in the sear just catching the edge of the half-cock and not actually dropping into it. I had a similar problem once, parts didn't seem to function right when installed. Needed a slightly longer trigger to fix the one I had

 

[snubnose57]

Where did you find the longer trigger? That may be the fix.

 

[hawkeye2]

Is it possible the nose of the sear is too thick to enter the half cock notch?

 

[snubnose57]

No, perfect fit. That is what I thought at first, but took it apart, and found that was not the problem.

 

[snubnose57]

Well, received a trigger and hammer, both Pietta made. The problem still exists.
desi23 suggested a longer trigger, but I am getting no hits on the web to order one.
Maybe someone knows who sells a longer trigger?

 

[Artificer]

Rescued a fancy brass framed 1851 sheriff. Needed a new trigger and sear. Made in Italy, stamped PR on the bottom of the grip frame. Bought one of each off Ebay. After installation, at half cock, the hammer falls when the trigger is pulled. Also, at half cock, if you push the hammer by hand, it will not budge.

Is there a burr or damage to the half cock notch on the hammer?

Also, if you haven't tried it, you might try putting the hammer and trigger on the outside of the frame and holding them in place with their respective pins. This should allow you to more closely examine how the parts are working as you move them.

Gus

 

[Scota4570]

Assemble the hammer and trigger/sear on the outside of the frame and see what is going.

 

[snubnose57]

Assembled outside, fit as should. Re'installed, no luck.Thinking of something, I measured a Pietta 1851 trigger screw to hammer screw, center to center.
Same distance as my problem revolver. By the way, this is a brasser made by PR(?)

 

[hawkeye2]

Could I suggest that you leave the hand, bolt, trigger/bolt spring and mainspirng out and just work with the hammer and trigger to begin with. Use your finger to hold the trigger forward and your thumb to supply pressure on the hammer. You should be able to feel the trigger engage the half cock notch and you should also be able to feel any movement of the hammer as you pull the trigger if there is any. If it works that way begin adding parts one at a time till it malfunctions.

As always pictures may help.

 

[Artificer]

After installation, at half cock, the hammer falls when the trigger is pulled. Also, at half cock, if you push the hammer by hand, it will not budge.

Not sure if you know this, but the test for checking the half cock notch is not by pulling the trigger. This because with enough pressure on the trigger, most any trigger/sear will come free. The actual test is just that the weight of the pistol can be held when a finger is on the trigger and the pistol upside down.

Gus

 

[snubnose57]

Well no matter how many times I take it apart an reassemble, the issue still exists. As desi23 said, he ordered a longer trigger to fix his revolver.
So far, no luck, but I will keep searching for a longer trigger, if one exists. Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[Artificer]

OK, at this point I would suggest you have the revolver in your hands and call Taylors and Company during business hours and ask to speak to their gunsmith. This to identify who made your revolver and what trigger might work in it the best. They will ask questions about markings on the barrel and other places and that's why it is necessary you have the revolver in your hands when you call.

540-722-2017

https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/

Gus

 

[arcticap]

Assembled outside, fit as should. Re'installed, no luck.Thinking of something, I measured a Pietta 1851 trigger screw to hammer screw, center to center.
Same distance as my problem revolver. By the way, this is a brasser made by PR(?)

From what I can find through a search, the maker's mark PR was used by an Italian gun smithing outfit named "Riva Estrina" which may have also used the trademark "DART".
They probably went out of business in the 1980's.
At least some of their guns may have been imported by FIE.
Another person had bought a [FIE] brass frame 1851 .36 Sheriff and there was some documentation found to be associated with the PR stamp.

 

[desi23]

Where did you find the longer trigger? That may be the fix.

I actually found it digging through a box of assorted parts at a gunshow. When comparing several different triggers (all intended for Colt replicas) I noticed variations in length, thickness and curvature going to the tip. The parts had belonged to a deceased gunsmith that the fellow at the show had bought at auction. The box was only marked as "parts for replica cap & ball revolvers" with no info on what went to each maker (that knowledge must have died with the previous owner). I ended up buying the whole box and in the years since have used up most of what was in it fixing various guns. Sometimes had to try a couple different parts to find the best fitting and functioning one. Sadly, I can't tell you now what fit which maker best.

Still I suspect that something is causing your trigger not to drop fully into the half cock notch. Perhaps the angle of the trigger is off compared to the hammer notch when installed? Does the full cock position seem secure? An extremely light or heavy full cock pull could indicate improper fit of the trigger beak to the hammer notches, which would also prevent the half cock notch from engaging properly.

 

[snubnose57]

The trigger pull at full cock is fairly light. The trigger and hammer are both maid by Pietta. Maybe, the hole in the frame is off a little, 1/16 of an inch could cause the issue.When I bought it(cheap) part of the sear tip was missing. Sure wish I had that old trigger to compare. Revolver made in 1981. I just think there is no way to fix it, may have to go back in time to find the elusive longer trigger.