1858 cylinder spin?

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Yep, the "AB" proof mark makes it 1980 vintage. Something about the seller's story is not quite right. Maybe he only fired 12 shots, but with a broken hand spring he probably had a lot of misfires and decided not to shoot it any more. The part with a missing leaf spring is what actually rotates the cylinder clockwise when the revolver is cocked. Without the proper spring tension the hand will move the cylinder erratically (instead of being "indexed"), allowing the hammer strikes to leave the marks shown in your pictures.
 
The missing spring on the cylinder hand will cause the hand to fail to extend into the ratchet teeth on the rear of the cylinder.

This may cause the cylinder to fail to rotate as the hammer is cocked.
It also can contribute to the cylinder turning further than it should but that is not its primary function.

The Cylinder Stop, which protrudes upward from below the cylinder is the part that keeps the cylinder from spinning and locks it into position prior to firing.

This Cylinder Stop is spring loaded to cause it to rise and engage the cylinder slots.
If the spring that lifts it has broken, that would be the primary reason the cylinder continues to turn.

The Trigger & Stop spring is a 2 legged flat spring and their breaking is quite common.

As a side note, when you slowly cock your pistol the following things should happen.
(As you check these out, look thru the gap between the cylinder and the lower part of the frame.)

1. Raising the hammer about 1/8-1/4 inch from the fired position will lower the cylinder stop, disengaging it from the cylinder.
The protruding end of the stop should completely disappear into the lower frame. There will be no sound.

2. Raising the hammer slightly further, the hand will engage the cylinder ratchet teeth and the cylinder will begin to rotate.
As the cylinder begins to rotate you should hear the "click" of the sear falling into the half cock notch.

3.Pulling the hammer further back, you should see the cylinder stop pop up out of the lower part of the frame. This will cause a "click" as it hits the cylinder.

4. Bringing the hammer further back may cause two clicks to be heard.
One of them is the cylinder stop falling into the notch on the cylinder. The other click is the sear entering the full cock notch.
If the cylinder hand fell to its full depth in the cylinder slot in #3, only the click of the sear entering the full cock notch will be heard.

If you put your thumb on the hammer and squeeze the trigger, the hammer should fall without causing the cylinder stop to move. Some guns will make a faint sound as a arm on the cylinder stop slips over the cam on the hammer that actuates it during the next cocking of the gun.

If you remove the brass trigger guard, you will see the 2 legged flat spring that actuates the trigger and the cylinder stop.

This spring can be installed upside down and if it is, it won't operate the cylinder stop as it should.
As your cylinder stop seems to not be working, if the two legs on that spring are unbroken, try removing it and turning it over. Then, retighten the screw that holds it in place and reinstall the trigger guard.

If you do this, try your gun again.
The cylinder stop may snap up like it is supposed to do and your problems are solved (except for the spring on the hand).

Speaking of the spring on the hand, its job is to push the hand out of the slot in the recoil shield.
Some have found that by clipping off a "bobby pin" (flat hairpin) and working a short 1/2-5/8 long piece of it into the small slot in the hand that it will fix the problem without your having to buy a new part. Some people solder it in place but others have found that lightly tapping the hand to collapse the slot onto the new spring will be sufficient to hold it.
 
Zonie said:
Some have found that by clipping off a "bobby pin" (flat hairpin) and working a short 1/2-5/8 long piece of it into the small slot in the hand that it will fix the problem without your having to buy a new part. Some people solder it in place but others have found that lightly tapping the hand to collapse the slot onto the new spring will be sufficient to hold it.
:thumbsup:
I've seen that fix on more than one revolver
 
Yup,that will work but I also think it necessary to investigate the hand mortice to see if there is a cause for the spring breakage.
There are often casting and machining snags that need filed and stoned out to make a smooth spring seat in the hand mortice.
I always like to stone the sharp points on the hand point or points as well so it doesn't chew into the ratchet teeth which will always be softer if the hand is hardened correctly. All you want is to put a bit of radius on the sharp ends and smooth the point. Mike D.
 
Good that you found the source of your problem. Nevertheless, you mentioned that the cylinder can spin 4 revs. If you're gonna spin the cylinder like a roulette wheel, you should expect some drag marks to prematurely appear.
 
Hi the spring under the trigger guard was in the correct position when I took it off, and when cocking the gun if the cylinder span too far I could see it was out of line so span the cylinder slowly and you could hear the click where the bottom pin located in the slot in the cylinder so that part was ok from what I could see.
I will try the bobby pin to see if that works if not do any of you know how much it would cost to send a letter to the uk with the (MP1725 Hand and Spring for Remington Revolver) part in? I ask because the part is $5.95 from the us and £16.75 from the uk, looking on dixies web site there postage for 1lb is $26 which is over 4 times the part! so can some one please get me a price on postage for a letter to the uk to save me some pennies :)
Thanks

Rick
 
Here is the website for the US Postal Service for International Mail. This should enable you to figure out the costs. I know that Jeff Tanner uses the International mail to send his molds to the US and his costs are around $5 if I remember correctly.

https://www.usps.com/ship/first-class-international.htm

I had the same problem you did with a broken hand spring in my Remington. I opened up the notch with a Dremel abrasive disc. Then I "borrowed" one of my wife's bobby pins. I cut it to length and soldered it in place. I had to install the hand spring, see if it worked, disassemble the pistol and try again about 5 times before I got the bend and pressure just right.

If I were you I'd try the repair first. You have a picture of what the spring is supposed to look like. In my experience the bobby pin material is stronger than the hand spring material that I got from Dixie. If you don't care to solder I would guess that epoxy and a light tap on the metal cut to close it tightly would probably work.

Many Klatch
 
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Hi Many thanks for the postal link :)
Thank you all for the help and the suggestion to use a bobby pin in replace of the broken spring, I found a couple and judged the length put it back together and it wouldn't catch up on half cock or full cock so I took it all apart again and what a pain in the ass the hammer spring is to get back in!! anyway I cut a tad more off and bent it out a bit more and bingo it works perfectly :grin: and the cylinder no longer spins on its own all you get now is a secure click where its indexing and catching as it should, thanks again guys :)
while I had it apart I looked down the barrel to see what the grooves and bore look like and there perfect no marks or pits that I could see but the grooves looked really shallow so I pocked my little finger down the barrel to see if I could feel them and they are very sharp and noticeable which im taking as a good sign :)
all iv got to do now is get some bp and off to the range to blow the cobwebs out.
Regards

Rick
 
It was probably mentioned above but any of the synthetic black powders like Pyrodex, Seven7seven etc will work fine in a cap and ball revolver.
 
Hi yes a friend of mine uses 777 and that's only because he was not aloud an explosives licence because he live in a flat with only 1 door, I have been granted an explosives licence so I can use bp and it is a lot cheaper than the alternatives like 777 ect, 777 is £44 a lb and pyrodex is £33 a lb and black powder is £15.50 a lb so that is another reason im going bp for my revolver :)

Rick
 
Hi thanks for the link :) I went through it and it came up as £1.10 to post a letter to the uk which I thought was quiet cheap :)
I e-mailed Dixie gun works and asked them how much to send this part- (MP1725 Hand and
> Spring for Remington Revolver, Spiller & Burr, and Whitney)to the uk and I got an e-mail back saying approximately $15
how is it they charge so much p&p for this tiny part?
Thanks

Rick
 
Hi does any one live close enough to dixies to pick up the piece and pop it in an envelope to the uk? :wink:

Rick
 
Hi all after fixing my revolver thanks again guys :) I went round a friends and he had some .454 balls so I could try out the cylinder loading jig so I took the nipples out and pressed a .454 ball into it and there was no ring of lead left behind but when I looked down the chamber I could see some lead between the wall and ball like it wasn't quiet enough to shave of a ring of lead, the friend I was with said it looked like the chambers had been tapered slightly so they fit at the top better and still seal once seated and he suggested this was done to stop the ring of lead fowling the gun up?
what are your thoughts on this guys?
oh I did this twice and both times when the balls where pushed out you could see a ring around the ball 2-3mm round the balls where they were sealed in the chamber.
Thanks

Rick
 
If the balls were showing a 2mm (.079") wide band completely around the circumference, they are safe to use.

They will seal the chamber mouth completely so there should be no chance of any flame entering the chamber from the front when the gun fires.

According to my calculations, the balls are about .003" (0.088mm) larger than the chambers which is about where they should be. :)
 
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