1858 New Army revolver - legit combat arm?

[garandman]

Wise words, and greatly appreciated.

 

[crockett]

I think the issue is now coming down to caps staying on nipples. It's not just the caps- some times it's the nipples. I suspect that a lot of modern nipples are more tapered- so an ill fitting cap can be squeezed and put on. A good shape has less taper and the cap fits tight. There is also the situation of not first dry firing a cap on each nipple prior to loading the gun. The dry firing burns off any oil or grease- otherwise the caps might loosen and cause a chain firing.
In any event a horseman had a lot of bouncing around and the caps stayed on the guns. Southern cavalrymen carried a lot of extra pistols, 4 maybe 6. They would have just relied on their swords if the revolver was unreliable. Hauling around 6 pistols that didn't work would be pointless. And, as I said before, I myself cannot recall anything witten at the time about caps falling off THEIR guns ( maybe better manufacturing tolerances than today's clones) however I have read about the multiple loading of muskets, etc.
In any event, in answer to your question, I think the revolver was indeed reliable.
And, while I'm thinking of it- I can't recall any writings on the west where a situation with caps falling off the revolver's nipples is mentioned even though I have read about gun mishaps- a guy grabbing a rifle by the barrel and shooting himself, etc. Let's also think about Wild Bill Hickok. When he died he owned about 130 guns- he was sort of a gun nut. The cartirdge Colt 1873 Peacemaker was available. If there was an issue with caps falling off of the percussion guns Hickok would not have carried a pair of cap and ball pistols.
I had a Navy 1851 Clone that had a problem with loose caps- I tried a couple of brands- no change- then a guy told me to buy some decent nipples- never had a problem after that.

 

[capt_turk]

I see this problem with loose nipples falling off on just about every forum I've encountered that had to do with percussion pistols. I've always wondered why nobody has ever mentioned the technique I was taught when I first encountered it. (Seriously ole fart that grew up with percussion guns.)


Got a nipple that the caps are loose, dry fire it a time or two until the cap fits tight. Dry firing mushrooms the end of the nipple just a hair each time the hammer hits it. I've done that to all my pistols and have never had another problem with caps falling off since I started doing it.

 

[cynthialee]

I see this problem with loose nipples falling off on just about every forum I've encountered that had to do with percussion pistols. I've always wondered why nobody has ever mentioned the technique I was taught when I first encountered it. (Seriously ole fart that grew up with percussion guns.)


Got a nipple that the caps are loose, dry fire it a time or two until the cap fits tight. Dry firing mushrooms the end of the nipple just a hair each time the hammer hits it. I've done that to all my pistols and have never had another problem with caps falling off since I started doing it.

This is one of those obvious as day posts that I am left thinking...'duh, of course, why didn't I think of that!?'

 

[redwing]

Do not damage your nipples. They should keep a sharp edge to give positive firing condition. The mashed nipple does not provide the even stream of fire do to reduced ID. Mashing the nipples on purpose is not a very smart cure. :td:

 

[cynthialee]

ok, I have a brand new set I just need to put on. I just was trying to get some more use out of the originals I have on the gun.

 

[Zonie]

I have no doubt that the soldiers during the Civil war were quite familiar with fitting percussion caps to the nipples of both their rifled muskets and the pistols they were issued or found on the battle field.

They knew how to make them work.

Why do I say this?

Because the percussion cap was very popular even before 1830. By 1840 almost all of the new guns, both rifles and pistols used them.

Even the Military had switched to percussion caps with the introduction of the Springfield model 1842 smoothbore musket.

This familiarity with percussion caps, if not learned by most of the combat soldiers in their civilian life would have been taught to them by the other soldiers who had been using them for years by the time the Civil War started.

In other words, I feel that almost any soldier that had a cap and ball pistol would know how to load it and shoot it.

As for items dropped on a march, this happened during both the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812 and the Civil War, not because the equipment was faulty but because marching soldiers are basically lazy and will get rid of anything that weighs much unless they see an immediate use for it.

This included but was not limited to guns and ammunition. It happened with ruck sacks, blankets, canteens and damn near anything else the soldiers were carrying.

Am I going to present documentation for this?
No.
The list would be too numerous to post.

 

[nilo52]

Same story, my caps don't fall off. The Remington design seems to stop cap jams as well. Find a brand of cap that fits your revolver and you will not have these issues.
Nilo52

 

[nkbj]

By the way, just as a contributing tidbit, conicals (created to improve the combat capabilities of percussion revolvers) can make caps come apart more. That can make a 1858 more jam prone than a 1860, depending upon hole size in the nipple, powder charge, how many times fired since cleaning, quality of the caps, etc.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I believe the 1858 Remington revolver is/ was:

Legitimate... Yes. Why wouldn't it be?
Effective... Yes. Absolutely.
Drawbacks... Yes, as with anything.

Make due with what you have until a better mousetrap comes along. :hmm:

 

[flahipneck]

Got to try it. k.i.s.s.

 

[capt_turk]

But when you are so broke you can't even pay attention, you make do with what you got.

The ole man that told me that lived through the great depression and showed me a number of ways to make do with what you got.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Looking at things with hindsight is easy to say this or that. While at the time, the US War Dept procurement office was fraught with cronyism, revolvers of the day were indeed a step up in fire power from the old single shot horse pistols.

I have an old civil war Ball carbine of the kind issued to cavalry units. Frankly that little rim fire cartridge could not have been much more powerful and still required a horseman to use two hands to reload each shot. I would have rather had a revolver under many circumstances.

 

[F.G. Ford]

I have been watching this topic for a few days.
Many of you fine fellows ( ladies included ) come here with facts and findings that educate us all.
And we appreciate it very much.
Some people come here to find fault with anybody and anything.
We don't need it!
There is enough discord in the world.
I know one thing for sure, if someone sticks their ass up in the air at 75 yds. I'll put another crease in it, and my caps won't fall my 1860 Army.
Thank you Dan for your service and valuable information.
Fred

 

[junkman_01]

Fred,

Everyone has their own opinion, and you are entitled to yours.

 

[Tommy Bruce]

I've always been able to keep my caps on by simply pinching them a bit when putting them on the nipple. Never really been an issue. Put me in the camp of the Remington being a legitimate combat weapon. Aside from the .44 chambering which puts it over the .36 navy, it also had a sturdier platform than the '51 Navy or the 1860 Colt revolvers. I don't know the historical relevance but switching out cylinders is also much easier in this revolver. I don't know how anyone can say it wasn't a legitimate combat pistol in it's day.

 

[54ball]

The model 58 was so reveared, that when Remington came out with their catridge model "1875" it had a web under the barrel to favor the loading lever of the 1858.