1858 Remington Handspring part 2 now what?

[Many Klatch]

I ordered a pair of handsprings for my 1858 Pietta Remington from Dixie and they arrived as fast as usual. The new handspring was almost identical to the old one so I installed it and it indexed the cylinder perfectly. BUT now I had no full cock on the hammer.

So I fiddled and stoned and filed on the handspring and took the gun apart and put it back together again about 20 times and decided that the trigger spring may have been too weak to snap the trigger into the full cock position, so I bent the trigger spring just a hair and finally got it to work.

Then I reinstalled the cylinder and guess what, no full cock. All the parts are original except the hand spring. I did not file on the full cock notch, I didn't do anything to it since it was working fine before the handspring replacement. I did use some 800 grit sandpaper on the business end of the trigger to remove a burr but I did not attempt to change the angle of the trigger.

What in the world is going on here? Any ideas?

Many Klatch

 

[hawkeye2]

It sounds like a timing issue. Possibly the hand is too long and when the bolt locks the cylinder the long hand does not allow the hammer to go back far enough. I know that you haven't changed anything except the hand spring but it is possible, specially since the first spring only lasted a few rounds, that it wasn't holding the hand in firm contact with the cylinder and it climbed out of the rachet enough to allow the hammer to move far enough to engage the full cock notch. I had an issue with a Uberti that I sold once. I used to go by the distributor and check several and pick out the ones that felt best. This time I had to cut a new forcing cone for the customer and after wiping down the gun and cutting the cone I reassembled it and found it didn't feel right. I disassebled it and the screw that holds the hand to the hammer was so loose that it flopped back and forth. There is the problem thought I. Wrong! It had been "fitted" that way by a parts assembeler and when the screw was tightened to remove any play the cylinder locked before the hammer would reach full cock. Shortening the hand solved the problem.

I haven't bought any parts lately but it used to be that a hand/spring cost only slightly more than a hand spring and a hand is easy to fit. If you are concerned about keeping your Remington running at a match I would recomend you buy a hand/spring and pre fit it so you can change it out quickly and get an extra trigger/bolt spring and put these parts in your shooting box.

 

[Many Klatch]

Hawkeye, thanks I'll try shortening the hand by a few thousandths and see what that does. I will also smooth it up all the way around in case something is binding.

Many Klatch

 

[nilo52]

I also broke the hand spring on my '58 Pietta. I bought a replacement from VTI and it worked great!

Maybe I just got lucky ? :idunno:
nilo

 

[Leatherbark]

Take the cylinder out and see if you have your full cock. If no take out the hand and see if the full cock works. Might be able to narrow the problem down to the hand.

Back in the day when you ordered a part for an Italian pistol from Dixie they didnt ask if it was for a Pietta or a Uberti or a Armi San Marco. They just sent you a hand/trigger etc for a 58 Rem. I bought triggers for 60 Colts that the pin hole was too small. Must have been for a different manufacterur.

Bob

 

[Many Klatch]

I finally got everything working again. I wound up having to disassemble and reassemble the piece about 50 times. On the plus side I can now get the main spring in and out in just a second or two.

I found that by lining the new piece and the old piece up side by side by putting the screw through both of them that I could see where a couple of thousandths here and there needed to be removed. A little judicious use of the Dremel and about a dozen fittings and by golly it was identical.

After a long bit of trial and error, I got everything to work, then another disassemble and reassemble to polish and fiddle with it just a bit more and bummer :cursing: it didn't work.

I took it apart again and found that the new spring in all the disassembly and reassembly had gotten squished and wasn't pushing the hand hard enough. So I unsquoze it (new technical term) and now it works fine.

So the next thing I did was get two bobby pins from my wife and now I am going to replace the spring on the old one with a bobby pin/spring.

So, thanks :hatsoff: :thumbsup: to Hawkeye, Leatherbark and Captain Kirk for their input. There comes a time when you can't see the forest for the trees and a little advice can be a big help.

Many Klatch

 

[Many Klatch]

Well I tried the bobby pin trick. Wish I had done that first, but I didn't have a backup piece if I messed it up. Anyway. I used my Dremel to cut off the old spring and then open up the notch. I took a piece of bobby pin and cleaned it up so it would take solder. Bobby pins come with a coating that don't look to be solder friendly.

I used soft solder (that is all I have) and by golly it works.

I took out the hand and spring that I had worked two days on and replaced the original hand with the new bobby-spring and it worked as good as new. After looking at the new hand and spring that I had been working on I found that the new spring was going bad, so I replaced it with a bobby-spring as well.

I could have saved two or three days of messing about with tiny parts if I had just replaced the spring with a bobby pin the first time. :cursing:

So the moral of the story is. If you have an 1858 Remington, the hand spring is going to go bad. Make sure you have some bobby pins and solder on hand.

Many Klatch

 

[Zonie]

You might add,

"Make sure your wife doesn't catch you stealing her bobby pins!
Wives have a very poor sense of humor when it comes to using their stuff in your guns and they are extremely possessive of small trivial items."

:rotf:

 

[nilo52]

Yeah, tell me about it !
Been married 38 years. I am now very well trained to leave her stuff alone (especialy her pots and pans--don't ask) this includes her fabric and sewing stuff too ! :yakyak:
nilo

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

In case you haven’t read this somewhere else, may I recommend you check the channel, in the frame, where the hand and hand spring reside. I have yet to find one that does not need deburring. Some of them have taken some serious filing to get them to allow the hand and spring to work smoothly. It promotes less wear and tear on the whole thing. Just a heads-up.

 

[Many Klatch]

Yeah, that is probably next on the agenda. I have two Italian 1858's. One is a 1995 ASM and the other is a 2000 Pietta. They both need some slicking up of the internals.

Many Klatch

 

[mazo kid]

MK, glad you got that revolver singing again! :v Many times, a bobby pin or safety pin in the shooting box will save the day. Just think of all the experience you now have for future tear-downs! :rotf:

 

[CaptainKirk]

Well, I've found if you are gonna rob the bank, go for the vault!
When I snarf bobby pins from the wife, I make it worth my while and grab a dozen or more. The penalty for transgression is the same, be it one or a dozen...

 

[Many Klatch]

The bobby pins worked and my wife was nice enough to actually hand me a couple. She wears her hair short and only keeps the bobby pins around out of habit.

Many Klatch