1860 Army #10 caps CCI, Slix-Shot nipples
- Thread starter olddoggy2
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2010
- Messages
- 1,061
- Reaction score
- 483
Pencil eraser ... great idea. Thanks
I use a wooden dowel with a mushroom shaped head for gripping to push caps on nipples.
At a NMLRA shoot, the range officer told me I had to stop pushing caps onto the nipples as it was unsafe and they could go off. I told her if she would show me this rule in the rule book I would stop. Never came back to me.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4,688
- Reaction score
- 8,571
I’m on my second thousand and have not had this issue. Moot point I suppose if I cannot get more...
Btw, if you need to get rid of any leftovers???
It’s funny I’ve never had a problem with factory nipples. I just find the right cap and invest in a little stick-toitivicatioushousness.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4,688
- Reaction score
- 8,571
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2010
- Messages
- 1,061
- Reaction score
- 483
It always amazes me of the things that persist as being pure truth ... when the RUMER began from somebody that THOUGHT they had a good idea ... then the following begins ... pretty quick it turns into FACT and then the folks begin to insist that a hear-say became somehow a fighting for truth.
Not saying that there is a hamm fisted gorilla out there that could somehow have an iron thumb that COULD mash a percussion cap enough to set it off ... but I would need to see them do it. I have pushed, shoved, sworn at and by caps since the early 1970's and been all over the western states in that time ... and ... I have NEVER seen nor heard factual documentation where by simple pushing has set off any percussion cap on either rifle nor revolver or percussion singleshot pistol.
Has anybody heard tell of this happening?
Not saying that there is a hamm fisted gorilla out there that could somehow have an iron thumb that COULD mash a percussion cap enough to set it off ... but I would need to see them do it. I have pushed, shoved, sworn at and by caps since the early 1970's and been all over the western states in that time ... and ... I have NEVER seen nor heard factual documentation where by simple pushing has set off any percussion cap on either rifle nor revolver or percussion singleshot pistol.
Has anybody heard tell of this happening?
If I recall Elmer Keith mentioned he had one go off under his thumb once in his book Sixguns, but who knows?
He states that a couple of times when seating caps on percussion rifle nipples with the ball of his thumb a rifle would go off. He said the caps would split when seating. He kind of far fetched.
He also said during pistol matches if you need to calm your nerves it is okay to take a couple
belts of liquor.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2015
- Messages
- 5,069
- Reaction score
- 3,707
FishDFly, regarding Elmer Keith, that would have been many years ago. I suspect caps made today may be slightly different. Maybe he just had an iron thumb.
Regarding Remington caps losing the priming from the cap, I had a tin that came with some other stuff I bought that did that. About 20% did it. I don't know how old they were or how they were stored. I've bought Remingtons since then and haven't seen it since that one second hand tin.
Regarding Remington caps losing the priming from the cap, I had a tin that came with some other stuff I bought that did that. About 20% did it. I don't know how old they were or how they were stored. I've bought Remingtons since then and haven't seen it since that one second hand tin.
olddoggy2
Pilgrim
Extremely informative link, I had no idea, always thought a #10 was a #10 and a #11 was a #11, Not the case.
Thanks
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2009
- Messages
- 4,688
- Reaction score
- 8,571
I don’t know, that was experienced and written about a long time ago and Elmer was as far as I know, a straight shooter. But then I was an early fan, my dad bought my first M29 when I was 17. (My enlistment present.) It was my money but the laws being what they are I couldn’t buy it myself.
I was also a black powder enthusiast and read and reread everything he wrote on the subject and others.
Yes, me too! The article was a real eye opener for me! I always thought caps is caps, cones is cones! Uh, not so much huh?
Festus
36 Cl.
Back to the original posters inquiry, use #10 Remingtons, they will work like they should and you will be happy. As far as I am concerned , percussion caps are the only thing Remington has got right.
arcticap
54 Cal.
There is an SASS shooter named Cuts Crooked who claimed on the SASS forum he was the victim in a police documented case of a percussion cap detonation in 1986 during loading and he shows a photo of the scar to prove it. He damaged the nerves in his thumb as a result.
The post is from Nov. 26, 2004:--->>> http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,1620.0.html
Here's the photo that he posted of his thumb:
That's a picture of what's left of my thumb after a cap detonated under it while loading my old 58 Remington years ago.
The following is an article that was printed in the Cowboy Chronical earlier this year about capping these old time guns.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Great Capping Controversy
(how to avoid the whole thing and still enjoy Frontiersman)
Howdy gang!
Back in the May issue of "The Chronicle", Old Scout, SASS Life #34718, wrote about capping our Cap & Ball pistols and the inherant dangers, or lack thereof, involved. Old Scout did a great job of testing and documenting his efforts to find out just how dangerous the chore might or might not be, along with testing for the results of an out of battery discharge. I enjoyed the fact that he covered the various seating methods employed and noted the possible level of danger to the shooter and bystanders. Then along comes the June issue and a letter from Silver Sam, SASS Life #34718 expressing his frustration over the rule that prevents "hammer seating" of percussion caps. And I certainly understand Silver Sams feeling on that matter! Once one gets used to a method of doing something, and it never seems to be a problem, it's difficult to accept that someone else can see a possible danger in that method...human nature at work there!
Well, Old Cuts is going to enter the controversy and tell y'all the answer to the cap seating dilema. The answer is DON'T. It's that simple! You see the whole "seating" thing really isn't needed, and I'll tell you why in a bit here. But first...
Happens that I am one of those pards who Old Scout mentioned as having a cap detonate under "finger pressure". Yes it can happen! The results ain't fun or pretty! For those who want the gory details, it happened in either June or July (I would have to check with the local Sheriffs office to be sure. It was recorded as a "firearms related injury" at the time and the doctor called in the Deputies to record the details) of 1986 in Marion County, Iowa. I was in a farm lane on my in-laws property doing a bit of target practice when a cap that I was "seating" on my 58 Remington detonated under the pressure of my thumb. Now a percussion cap doesn't have much power, not much more than the explosive force of a cap designed for toy cap guns, but the escaping gases coming back through the nipple hole from the ignition of the powder DO HAVE CONSIDERABLE FORCE!. Without the hammer down over that little hole enough hot gas can escape to do a lot of damage to any digit in its path. When it happened I ended up with a thumb that looked kind of like a peeled banana, only black! The nail bed was laid back down over the knuckle of my thumb, a strip was peeled down the inside radius, and the meaty ball was sort of bulged out. This left the bone exposed on the end of my thumb! (OUCH!) After washing and wire brushing away all the charred stuff the Sawbones was able to pull every thing back together and sew it up by running stitches through the thumbnail and the meaty part. But there was a piece missing that he couldn't do anything about. It really didn't hurt though, in fact I've never felt anything in that thumb again! Apparently the nerve bundle on the inside of the thumb was instantly cauterized. Made fer a bit of a hassle to relearn how cock a revolver!
So, Cuts decided to make sure he never had to "seat" a cap again! And it isn't that difficult! My first effort in that direction was to purchase nipples (did you know the old timers called them "tubes"?) that fit my caps properly. In those days the availability of various caps and nipples wasn't all that great. But a little perserverance found a combination that fit properly. The caps would go all the way down on good fitting nipples with only a little pressure from the capping tool. And there was just enough friction to keep them in place during cycling and firing the gun. That's the way it' supposed to work, no pushing them down on with a dowel or yer finger, and no pinching them to make them fit tight enough to stay on. Just press them on with the capping tool and keep going! Simple! Right? Well...no, not exactly. Seems that nipples tend to batter and get out of shape, Which makes it harder to press a cap onto them after a while. And sometimes you just can't find the right combination of caps & nipples to achieve that perfect fit. So what do you do? Use yer finger or a dowel? The answer is neither of those! You make the nipple fit the caps!
If you have access to a lathe this is a pretty simple job. But most folks don't have a machine shop laying around the house. I know, I don't anyway! But there's still a pretty easy way to make those nipples fit yer caps, it's not hard, and it doesn't require expensive tools. All you need is a fine toothed file, some emory cloth, and an electric hand drill! Simply chuck the offending nipple in the drill, closing the jaws on the "shoulder" of the nipple to avoid damaging the threads. Then hold your fine toothed file against the "tube" and pull the trigger on the drill. Use very light pressure to hold the file against the nipple while it spins, stopping frequently to check fit with a cap. (Stop the drill when do this!!!!) When you have removed enough metal so that the cap just slides down onto the nipple with minimal pressure, then polish things up a bit with the emory cloth, not too much because you want to maintain a friction fit...and you're done! You now have a perfect fitting cap & nipple combination that doesn't require placing yoru fingers in danger or the use of a special pushing tool to seat the caps all the way down. All you have to do is place a cap over the nipple with your capping tool and press lightly, then pull the tool straight out. It will save you some time at the loading table, no more concerns about the dangers of hammer seating, and your fingers will thank you for your efforts on their behalf! And from Snakebite, SASS Life #4767, comes the tip to carry an old toothbrush in your kit, to brush away accumilated soot from the nipples at the unloading table. This helps more than you'd imagine!
Now, go shoot that fine old time cap gun, and have fun...safely!
Yer Pard,
Cuts Crooked, SASS #36914
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe that this is the testing and documentation mentioned in the post about the danger to bystanders from a gun firing out of battery during capping which led an SASS club to adopt a push stick only rule for capping..--->>> http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/articles/capping.html
Last edited:
olddoggy2
Pilgrim
I of course was kidding about the hammer
arcticap
54 Cal.
I realize how uncommon it is for caps to detonate by thumb pressure alone during capping.
Some years ago I searched until I found the following info, about the impact sensitivity of lead styphnate, the common priming compound used for making percussion caps.
Unfortunately the original reference page no longer exists, but my post did.
The Impact Sensitivity of Lead Styphnate
Based on a test using a 2 kilogram weight (4.40924524 lbs.), the impact sensitivity of lead styphnate is 3 inches
I guess that what happens during accidental detonation, is that when the lip of the cone interferes with the cap easily slipping on, as more pressure is applied in an effort to make the cap gradually fit onto the cone, the cap suddenly expands and lurches forward past the obstruction with enough momentum to equal the amount of force required for it to explode.
The cap itself may only lurch forward a fraction of an inch, but the amount of force exerted on the priming compound at least equals the critical point of impact sensitivity.
Some years ago I searched until I found the following info, about the impact sensitivity of lead styphnate, the common priming compound used for making percussion caps.
Unfortunately the original reference page no longer exists, but my post did.
The Impact Sensitivity of Lead Styphnate
Based on a test using a 2 kilogram weight (4.40924524 lbs.), the impact sensitivity of lead styphnate is 3 inches
I guess that what happens during accidental detonation, is that when the lip of the cone interferes with the cap easily slipping on, as more pressure is applied in an effort to make the cap gradually fit onto the cone, the cap suddenly expands and lurches forward past the obstruction with enough momentum to equal the amount of force required for it to explode.
The cap itself may only lurch forward a fraction of an inch, but the amount of force exerted on the priming compound at least equals the critical point of impact sensitivity.
Last edited:
