1860 Shooting high

[rebrick99]

I just bought a pietta 1860 army cap and ball
revolver. I loaded it with 30grs of pyrodex p
and wonder wad and 454 ball. This gun shot 14"
high at 15 yards. This is terrible accuracy. Left
and right was okay but elevation was way off. What
can be done to remedy this problem? A higher front
sight would help but i think you would need such a high front sight that it would look funny.

 

[Norinco]

I was under the impression that they all shoot high since the sights are zeroed at longer ranges.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

You could back-off 10% on your charge. That would help some.

How you hold the revolver's grip determines where the shot goes as well. Repeatable results with the revolver pointed at 8-10 inches below what you want to hit seem to work :wink: .

The gun is sighted-in for 75 yards will a good stiff load.........

Dave

 

[mazo kid]

IMHO, most C&B revolvers will shoot high. I have a '59 Remmie and I purchased a higher front sight from Dixie to correct the problem. My Colt repros....I just compensate. Might get around to trying to make front sights someday.For your Colts, just unscrew the brass post and either thread a small piece of brazing rod or solder it in place. File until you get it to shoot where you want. then round off the top. I did this on the snubby bird-head grip revolver I built from a rough kit. It should be posted here from last Summer.

 

[goon]

I just bought a pietta 1860 army cap and ball
revolver. I loaded it with 30grs of pyrodex p
and wonder wad and 454 ball. This gun shot 14"
high at 15 yards. This is terrible accuracy. Left
and right was okay but elevation was way off. What
can be done to remedy this problem? A higher front
sight would help but i think you would need such a high front sight that it would look funny.

Actually, it might be pretty accurate, just not shooting where the sights say it should.
You will probably have to replace the front sight. Even my Uberti Remington seems to shoot about 6" high at 25 yards. It's OK for my purposes, but I agree that 14" high is way out of hand.

 

[Norinco]

How do you remove the sights on a Colt?

 

[Leatherbark]

That Pietta 1860 has a pressed in front sight. The sight is pressed in a semi circular slot in the barrel..........Use a Chisel and knock out the front sight and make a new one (taller) out of a piece of 1/8" brass stock. (I made mine look like a peacemaker front sight). I ground the bottome to match the original and used a vise to squeeze the sight back in. I made mine about 3/8ths inch high , but havent had a chance to shoot it yet to check point of impact....................Good luck

 

[madcratebuilder]

Originally the Colt was sighted for 75yds. There are a few things you can do to get your poi closer to your poa. Smaller charge, taller front sight, deeper notch in the hammer. You can also use Kentucky windage.

 

[59sharps]

or jb weld on the front sight. file down to needed spry w/ sight black. several places sell dovetailed sights once fitted shap to barrel. or just bend the barrel thats how I did my first one.

 

[Zonie]

Just for giggles I poked some numbers into my computers roundball ballistics calculator for a .44 cap and ball revolver with an 8 inch barrel.

Lymans Black Powder Handbook says a 30 grain powder charge gave them a muzzle velocity of 794 FPS.
I set the point of aim at 80 yards.

The following is the height of the roundball above the point of aim.
10 yards = 2.0"
20 yards = 4.1"
30 yards = 5.5"
40 yards = 6.1"
50 yards = 5.9"
60 yards = 4.9"
70 yards = 3.0"
80 yards = 0.0"

Based on the height of impact at the closer ranges that I've seen with many of my C&B guns these values look pretty close.

 

[goon]

I've found with other fixed sight handguns (although not C&B's because my experience is very limited with them), using kentucky windage to adjust for an elevation change of less than 6" or so isn't that big of a deal. It's not hard to just hold a bit lower. But windage - that's the one that irritates me greatly. It's the reason I chose a Remington with a dovetailed front sight over a Colt style for my first percussion revolver.

 

[Chilidog]

Just for giggles I poked some numbers into my computers roundball ballistics calculator for a .44 cap and ball revolver with an 8 inch barrel.

Lymans Black Powder Handbook says a 30 grain powder charge gave them a muzzle velocity of 794 FPS.
I set the point of aim at 80 yards.

The following is the height of the roundball above the point of aim.
10 yards = 2.0"
20 yards = 4.1"
30 yards = 5.5"
40 yards = 6.1"
50 yards = 5.9"
60 yards = 4.9"
70 yards = 3.0"
80 yards = 0.0"

Based on the height of impact at the closer ranges that I've seen with many of my C&B guns these values look pretty close.

Thanks for that Zonie. I find it interesting that at 50-60 yards it's still that high. Boy do I need practice. :grin:

 

[Chilidog]

I've found with other fixed sight handguns (although not C&B's because my experience is very limited with them), using kentucky windage to adjust for an elevation change of less than 6" or so isn't that big of a deal. It's not hard to just hold a bit lower. But windage - that's the one that irritates me greatly. It's the reason I chose a Remington with a dovetailed front sight over a Colt style for my first percussion revolver.

I only have three of the colts, two Uberti's and one Pietta and have not found the windage to be a problem. Maybe I'm just lucky but all three are hitting center.

And I agree with you about the old Kentucy windage. Just holding low is not a problem with me. But I must admit I need a lot more practice at the different ranges. Oh well, more shooting time on the horizon. :grin:

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Not that I'm CRAZY, but all of this talk about attaching taller sights makes me scratch my head. I have to aim at the BOTTOM of a B-6 50 yard slow-fire pistol target! For my Colt 1860 Army I'm using only 27 grains of 3Fg, a pre-lubed wonder-wad and a .454 ball. I'm getting a lot of rise out of the revolver, probably due in part to the way I have to hold it (strong-hand only) to follow the rules of NRA Pistol Qualification.

I've found through extensive testing that the amount of pressure you hold the revolver's grips with will also help to determine shot placement on the targets. Being able to figure-out a comfortable REPEATABLE hold that allows finite trigger control is the key to laying rounds into the black from 50 yards away, NOT how tall your sight is :wink: .

Zonie's chart is no surprise to me what-so-ever! Furthermore, depending upon the revolver and the charge, the distances and/or measurements of POI can GO UP! For example, using my 3rd Model Dragoon with a 45 grain Horse Pistol charge, I have to aim more than a foot under the X-ring at 25 yards to hit it!

To me, overcoming the obstacles of the era is part of the allure of the Cap & Ball. I'm not looking to turn it into a centerfire six-gun...

Dave

 

[Zonie]

I guess I should mention that the chart I posted is based just on trajectory.

Like you said, the powder load, the shooters hand pressure, the way they hold their arm...a lot of things can have some major effects on where a individual pistol will actually be pointing when the ball/bullet leaves the bore.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

:thumbsup: Well stated! It's rather interesting to note that holding the revolver's grips "loose enough" not to shake laterally due to excessive grip pressure results in superior predictability in where the rounds wind-up on the targets. I have two other friends shooting this same model revolver (charcoal-finished, fluted cylinder Uberti Colt 1860 Army) in the NRA Qualification Matches at our local Club. The three of us have adopted very similar aiming points and technique so we can all make Distinguished Expert together.

What's even more interesting to note is that my two friends both gave-up on trying to use their single-shot pistols with adjustable sights in favor of the revolver with it's smaller grips and lighter weight. I've personally witnessed my League Chairman put two balls through the (just slightly bigger than a quarter) X-Ring of a B-19 Target at 50 yards strong hand only (duelist) using his revolver!

If all goes well, I'll be back at it this Sunday with my Son's Charcoal 1860.......

Dave

 

[Chilidog]

To me, overcoming the obstacles of the era is part of the allure of the Cap & Ball. I'm not looking to turn it into a centerfire six-gun...

Dave

Gotta agree, that's where I'm coming from.