1861 Smooth Bore

[willno]

I recently acquired a 3 banded Enfield musket. It is marked on the lock plate Tower 1861 and has the queens crown. It has barrel markings on the opposite side of a small star, 25 star and 25. It has no rear sight but appears to have had one at sometime. The bore seems to have no rifling. I'm trying to determine the origin of this gun. Not sure if it is from the American Civil War or not. Can anyone help me out or give me some direction to look.
Thanks
willno

 

[Sam squanch]

I seem to have read the British army gave smoothbores to native Indian troops and police,so if a rebellion occurred they did not have a rifle to hit with long range at regular army troops. Or it may have been smooth bored on purpose for a civilian shotgun. Just my best guess.

 

[Sam squanch]

Scrubbing the bore clean and looking with a strong bore light will tell if it was made smooth bore , or reamed out later. May be some very worn rifling left.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

The "25" stamps are preliminary and finished bore gauges, which indicate that the musket was originally finished as .577 caliber. The barrel may be shot out and closer to .60 caliber now, especially near the muzzle, of the barrel may have been intentionally reamed out to make it into a fowler shotgun after its military service was over.

The proofs also tell us that this was a gun made for commercial sales, which would be correct for the overwhelming majority of P1853s purchased in America. However, we need to know if there are other markings on the stock to prove Civil War usage. Please post photos of the buttplate tang and the wood in front of it, as well as the stock flat, and the wood behind the trigger guard.

 

[willno]

Thanks for the info Sam & Grayrock. I've checked the areas that you requested and posted photos. I can't see any markings but they could be worn off.

 

[TFoley]

I seem to have read the British army gave smoothbores to native Indian troops and police,so if a rebellion occurred they did not have a rifle to hit with long range at regular army troops. Or it may have been smooth bored on purpose for a civilian shotgun. Just my best guess.

It's true. It happened after the 1857 Mutiny.

 

[willno]

Is there anyway to tell if this gun went to India or America?

 

[Sam squanch]

Indian (the country) muskets were not maintained very well from what I’ve seen. If their is any old preservative fat or grease in it, have it analyzed? Might narrow it down.

 

[willno]

It's pretty dry. Don't think it's been cleaned or shipped in a long time if ever. It is well used though. The barrel is pretty thin making me think it may have been rebored or used heavily.

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

There are no markings to conclude that the musket was definitely used in the Civil War. It is a definite probability, but as a colleague of mine says, the P1853 Rifle-Musket was the period equivalent of the AK-47 and was exported all over the world.
Is there a rear sight or the impression where one was located? That will enable us to determine if it is a P1858 Native Service musket or a regular P1853. From what I have seen I do not expect it to be a Native Service gun.

 

[willno]

Don't know if you can see it here but there is definitely a line parallel to the barrel just above the stock and the pitting on the front stops about where the site would have been. Does a site indicate an American gun?

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

Don't know if you can see it here but there is definitely a line parallel to the barrel just above the stock and the pitting on the front stops about where the site would have been. Does a site indicate an American gun?

The scratch on the barrel corresponds to the side of the normal long range rear sight. This would be correct for muskets sold in to America during the Civil War, though it may have been sold elsewhere. It does prove that this is not an Indian or Afghan Native Service Musket.

 

[willno]

That's great. Thanks for the info Grayrock. I assume that the Indian or Afgan guns did not have this long range rear site?

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

That's great. Thanks for the info Grayrock. I assume that the Indian or Afgan guns did not have this long range rear site?

Guns that were sent abroad for use with native levies after the Sepoy Rebellion in India were a specially designed Native Service pattern. Although they have a superficial resemblance to the regular P1853 family of arms they were smoothbore weapons with simple block style rear sights.
There are some arms that were made indigenously that are copies of the P1853 Rifle-Musket and P1856/58/60 Rifles that do have rifled bores and long range rear sights, but your rifle is not one of them.

Assuming you are in the US, your musket is probably a Civil War import, but comparatively few Civil War used Enfield pattern arms have markings to conclusively prove that they were purchased for use in America.

 

[willno]

Thanks a lot for your expertise Grayrock. You have been a great help. I now have a much better understanding of the history of these weapons.

 

[ArtyGunner]

As suggested I would use an endoscope to check the bore after a good cleaning. The barrel looks legit but the bolster looks "rough".

 

[willno]

I'm looking for a scope now to get a better look inside the barrel. What is the bolster?
I took some measurements of the barrel ID and found that at the end of the barrel the ID is .621 and about 6" down it drops to .591. It doesn't appear to have any caliber markings. Is that normal?

 

[Grayrock Volunteer]

I'm looking for a scope now to get a better look inside the barrel. What is the bolster?
I took some measurements of the barrel ID and found that at the end of the barrel the ID is .621 and about 6" down it drops to .591. It doesn't appear to have any caliber markings. Is that normal?

The varying bore size is the result of the barrel being shot out over time. It is quite common to find muskets with their muzzle diameters "opened up" due to ramrod wear.

The two "25" markings on the side of the barrel are the bore size markings. They are in gauge rather than caliber. 25 gauge equates to .577 caliber, which is standard for P1853 Rifle-Muskets.

 

[Thagomizer]

Can we rule out a recent import from the Nepal Cache from IMA?

 

[TFoley]

I'm looking for a scope now to get a better look inside the barrel. What is the bolster?
I took some measurements of the barrel ID and found that at the end of the barrel the ID is .621 and about 6" down it drops to .591. It doesn't appear to have any caliber markings. Is that normal?

The bolster is the part of the action where the nipple is located. The part in which the screw head can be seen here

As Mr Grayrock note, the calibre IS noted. It is 25 gauge - this equates to .577" calibre.