Was Dutch right about wiping between shots?

[tenngun]

I no doubt will catch flak for this but I blow down the barrel before loading
As some see a danger in putting you mouth over an empty gun some folks ape-ah fecal matter over this.
There are several ways of doing this that don’t involve kissing the muzzle.
The big advantage of this is that solid whoosh of air out the touch hole
It’s good and clear now at this point.

 

[French Colonial]

I no doubt will catch flak for this but I blow down the barrel before loading
As some see a danger in putting you mouth over an empty gun some folks ape-ah fecal matter over this.
There are several ways of doing this that don’t involve kissing the muzzle.
The big advantage of this is that solid whoosh of air out the touch hole
It’s good and clear now at this point.

I was taught to blow down the barrel back in the 70's when I first started, every one of my mentors did it.
I kept doing it when I got heavily into BPCRS albeit through a blow tube, somewhere in the last few years there was a switch by some afraid they would blow their face off so they wanted the rest of us to stop doing it as well.

Nervous nannies....

 

[Dark Angel]

Once went to a rifle range with a friend to try a new rifle (not BP but cartridge) I had bought. Saw a man there firing a flintlock. He swabbed his bore between shots, and I couldn't understand why. This friend of mine had at the time been hunting and shooting competition with muzzleloaders for almost 30 years. He just shook his head and laughed. When i asked him why he was laughing, he told me that it was 'just plain stupid' and the man didn't know 'squat' about muzzleloaders as swabbing after each shot was a waste of effort. I had/have to bow to his knowledge about such things as my sole experience with BP is C&B revolvers.

 

[COTNTOP]

My shooting partner and I started wiping with T17 between each shot and our groups tightened up considerably. Now our groups look like some of those I see on this forum. We also bought Muzzleloader Original pre-lubed patches that fell right in with this style of shooting. I was probably doing everything wrong before, this sure helped us.

 

[I Did It Again]

I was taught to blow down the barrel back in the 70's when I first started, every one of my mentors did it.
I kept doing it when I got heavily into BPCRS albeit through a blow tube, somewhere in the last few years there was a switch by some afraid they would blow their face off so they wanted the rest of us to stop doing it as well.

Nervous nannies....

I was too. My Hawken .54 caplock was hand built for me in ‘75 by an old man who has long since gone under but that is what he recommended when he turned the rifle over to me. I followed the practice after every shot right up until I joined a local club a very short few years ago. Had to stop to keep the peace at all the local rendezvous’ but still practice that method when I am on my own.

 

[tenngun]

Once went to a rifle range with a friend to try a new rifle (not BP but cartridge) I had bought. Saw a man there firing a flintlock. He swabbed his bore between shots, and I couldn't understand why. This friend of mine had at the time been hunting and shooting competition with muzzleloaders for almost 30 years. He just shook his head and laughed. When i asked him why he was laughing, he told me that it was 'just plain stupid' and the man didn't know 'squat' about muzzleloaders as swabbing after each shot was a waste of effort. I had/have to bow to his knowledge about such things as my sole experience with BP is C&B revolvers.

Black powder residue is effected by humidity
I grew up in New Mexico and often shot ten or twenty shots without a wipe
Then in California when in the navy did the same.
Then moving to Arkansas ran in to high humidity. Four or five shots the round would start getting too tight to load easily after four or five shots
Spit patch helped, but a ‘cake’ would form pretty quick
A few years ago I tried some speed shooting with paper cartridges, I got off loads on an average of eighteen seconds for ten shots. But even at the end the ball, wad combo got hard to run down, a .575 in a .62.
A wipe between shots prevented any hard loading for me.
It’s just easy. Ml is a slow-take-your-time sport
And twenty shots is a afternoon at the range for me
In October I was at an even, and was shooting smooth bore, and did load about ten shots before I swabed. It was pretty humid and shooting a bare ball I still had to push that ball down after five shots
Swabing between shots just cost you nothing and prevents ever having a load to tight to ram home.

 

[JDBraddy]

Glad I read through this thread. I shoot a T/C. Have been using the Dutch method, dry lubed patch, wiping between shots.

Shot a fun match this weekend that requires loading from the pouch, someone here had suggested eliminating the little spray bottle from my kit in favor of a tin of pre-dampened wiping patches. I had four misfires during the match. Though I must have gotten the patches too wet, but now realize I also thought tighter was better for cleaning patches.

So when I had used up the cheap cleaning patches I had bought, I cut up a torn heavy flannel shirt that is much thicker, and fits quite snuggly over my jag. Think I must have been pushing the debris down to the breech.

I had also previously tried the dawn/water thing, but apparently was doing it wrong. I was using it on cleaning patch to wipe between shots, not as a lube on the loading patch. May have to give it another try.

 

[Flint1]

I used to wipe between shots many years ago and from time to time I would have misfires. I thought about it awhile and reasoned when I load a patched ball that would be pushing some of the fouling down the bore, hence cleaning it some, but the fouling would be on top of the powder charge, not down by the touch hole. I stopped wiping between shots and the misfires dropped off drastically. There will be some here who will swear up and down that the only way to go is wiping between every shot, and it may work for them, I'm just saying what I have found that works for me. Historically, when the Shawnee were attacking Boonesboro, I doubt Daniel Boone and his settlers were pausing to wipe between every shot no more than were the over mountain men when they were attacking the Tories atop King's Mountain.

 

[hanshi]

I don't wipe between shots or even every 20 shots. In fact I rarely wipe the bore until shooting is over for the day. Many years ago I did have to wipe near every shot so some of the things I segued into doing now obviously has made a difference. Basically I only polished the crown really well and use a much thicker patch; that's about all that comes to mind. I do blow down the barrel frequently using my hand as a funnel.

I did learn some things about lubes and that helped immensely. I got rid of the Bore Butters, Crisco, Vaseline and bees wax and started using Hoppes BP Lube, spit patch and TOW mink oil. I found I could use pillow ticking (about .014" - .015") then mattress ticking (about .018") on to heavier materials including unbleached canvas (about .024"). All measured while heavily compressed. All my guns don't take the same patch material nor tolerate the thickest patches. I use compressed .010" to .012" material in a smoothbore and US M1841; the rest like a good patch of .020" to .024". If you haven't at least polished the crown to eliminate the sharp end of the lands and the sharp ridge usually found where the factory crown was cut then forget trying really thick patching.

I don't like, want or have success using dry or nearly dry patches. Use them and you will have to wipe the bore every shot. I want only wet, but not drippy, and well greased, on both sides, patches. I like lots of lube.

 

[JDBraddy]

I don't wipe between shots or even every 20 shots. In fact I rarely wipe the bore until shooting is over for the day. Many years ago I did have to wipe near every shot so some of the things I segued into doing now obviously has made a difference. Basically I only polished the crown really well and use a much thicker patch; that's about all that comes to mind. I do blow down the barrel frequently using my hand as a funnel.

I did learn some things about lubes and that helped immensely. I got rid of the Bore Butters, Crisco, Vaseline and bees wax and started using Hoppes BP Lube, spit patch and TOW mink oil. I found I could use pillow ticking (about .014" - .015") then mattress ticking (about .018") on to heavier materials including unbleached canvas (about .024"). All measured while heavily compressed. All my guns don't take the same patch material nor tolerate the thickest patches. I use compressed .010" to .012" material in a smoothbore and US M1841; the rest like a good patch of .020" to .024". If you haven't at least polished the crown to eliminate the sharp end of the lands and the sharp ridge usually found where the factory crown was cut then forget trying really thick patching.

I don't like, want or have success using dry or nearly dry patches. Use them and you will have to wipe the bore every shot. I want only wet, but not drippy, and well greased, on both sides, patches. I like lots of lube.

Ok, so educate me on what you're doing. As I said am relatively new (about a year) to muzzleloading, and have been using Dutch Schultz's method and noticed significant accuracy improvements over when I started, but misfires have been an occasional problem, and became a real problem this weekend loading from the pouch, and using thicker, wetter, patches to swab between shots with. Am open minded enough to try something new.

Now, I have on hand .010" and .020" Ox-yoke pre-lubed patches .014" pillow ticking,.017" drill cloth, .020" 10oz Denim and .024" 12oz Denim. Ballistol, various formulations of Moose milk, as well as commercial products including Hoppe's black powder bore cleaner, Birchwood Casey muzzle magic, and Butch's black powder bore shine. As well as bees-wax, olive oil, castor oil, mineral oil, and an assortment of formulations of beeswax/oil based lubes. Also, Dawn/water as well as Simple-Green/Alcohol. So should have pretty much anything needed.

I shoot primarily T/C's most often .45cal, flint and percussion, but have other calibers from .32 - 58cal as well. So please share your thoughts and processes.

 

[Jim K]

i had a very good friend show me the dawn lube method and i never looked back,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Olskool, what do you use to hunt? I use 50/50 Murphy’s and water when shooting at the range with no need to wipe. But use bear grease to hunt.

 

[Mike in FL]

I've always wondered why we should NOT wipe between shots. I cannot see a reason other than a given shooter simply does not want to. I have never believed that cleaning pushes fouling down to the breech where it stays. If that were true, then driving a lubed prb down a fouled barrel would do the same thing. So many boast of how many shots they can fire without wiping. What they are actually saying is sometimes my barrel is so caked with fouling, I can't load another ball without cleaning. I don't get that. Why not make every shot from a clean barrel? That is the very definition of consistency. Why pound subsequent shots down a dirty barrel when that load might have been as easy to seat as the one before? Why? The only rational answer has to be that the shooter has a legitimate need to shoot that next shot quickly, or he just does not want to. We have that freedom. I have loaded a dirty barrel myself when circumstances dictated a fast reload was advantageous. But how often is not wiping an advantage? I mean how long does it take to run down a wet patch and then another to dry? Or even two to dry. Less than a minute. We have that much time to make the next shot the best it can be. Such is my useless opinion.

 

[Buff1958]

50 years ago I had an old man at a shoot tell me to run one wet patch, then 2 dry patches after every shot.

He told me a couple of years later he was mostly trying to get me to slow down and relax a little between shots.
By that time it had become a habit and I still do it today if I am shooting a match.

no issues with hang fires or no fires

 

[Stumpkiller]

Glad I read through this thread. I shoot a T/C. Have been using the Dutch method, dry lubed patch, wiping between shots.

Shot a fun match this weekend that requires loading from the pouch, someone here had suggested eliminating the little spray bottle from my kit in favor of a tin of pre-dampened wiping patches. I had four misfires during the match. Though I must have gotten the patches too wet, but now realize I also thought tighter was better for cleaning patches.

So when I had used up the cheap cleaning patches I had bought, I cut up a torn heavy flannel shirt that is much thicker, and fits quite snuggly over my jag. Think I must have been pushing the debris down to the breech.

I had also previously tried the dawn/water thing, but apparently was doing it wrong. I was using it on cleaning patch to wipe between shots, not as a lube on the loading patch. May have to give it another try.

As a rule, I try to shoot with equipment and accoutrements that were available in the 1780's. This does not include spray bottles. In fact, carrying small amounts of any liquid in a hunting pouch was likely not done. You had your own spit, and maybe a bit of tallow, grease, rendered fat, or a mix with wax in a tin. I have seen surviving period bags (there are few) with pre-cut and lubed patches threaded on a string (threaded with a line through the center). But it was likely not a liquid lube.

 

[French Colonial]

I've always wondered why we should NOT wipe between shots. I cannot see a reason other than a given shooter simply does not want to. I have never believed that cleaning pushes fouling down to the breech where it stays. If that were true, then driving a lubed prb down a fouled barrel would do the same thing. So many boast of how many shots they can fire without wiping. What they are actually saying is sometimes my barrel is so caked with fouling, I can't load another ball without cleaning. I don't get that. Why not make every shot from a clean barrel? That is the very definition of consistency. Why pound subsequent shots down a dirty barrel when that load might have been as easy to seat as the one before? Why? The only rational answer has to be that the shooter has a legitimate need to shoot that next shot quickly, or he just does not want to. We have that freedom. I have loaded a dirty barrel myself when circumstances dictated a fast reload was advantageous. But how often is not wiping an advantage? I mean how long does it take to run down a wet patch and then another to dry? Or even two to dry. Less than a minute. We have that much time to make the next shot the best it can be. Such is my useless opinion.

How about because with some experimentation it is not needed?

 

[Salty]

I no doubt will catch flak for this but I blow down the barrel before loading
As some see a danger in putting you mouth over an empty gun some folks ape-ah fecal matter over this.
There are several ways of doing this that don’t involve kissing the muzzle.
The big advantage of this is that solid whoosh of air out the touch hole
It’s good and clear now at this point.

I have a piece of vinyl tubing that fit inside the muzzle with a hollowed out antler on my end. Works great. Avoids the kiss.

 

[FishDFly]

The most ever and hotly debated subject ever here.

How long will it go on?

 

[French Colonial]

Ok boys and girls here is the long winded (not really) version.

When I first started back in the 70's the big event at our club was the Seneca run, the winner was revered and lauded continuously all year and it was something I strove mightily to win.

For those that do not know it was a timed event with about a dozen stations, mostly shooting at metal swingers at different distances but also going calf deep into a creek to set a trap, throwing a hawk, and making fire with flint and steel. You better run between stations, because the other guys are.

I never won, we had two guys, Joe Florini (the Italian Stallion!) and Dave Goode who were light years better than the rest of us at this game, and I did my best to copy their methods.

We assumed these were the skills that Simon Kenton, Lewis Wetzel and good old Daniel used when fleeing or hiding from hostiles.

You will NEVER get close to winning a match like this fooling around with wiping between shots and the other complications most burden themselves with. (I am too old to run anyway)

I play with modern complications for the joy of experimentation, but loading and shooting like your preparing for a Seneca run is to me the ultimate goal. Only benchrest shooters need to wipe between shots as most do not shoot well enough offhand to make a difference.

 

[LME]

I've always wondered why we should NOT wipe between shots. I cannot see a reason other than a given shooter simply does not want to. I have never believed that cleaning pushes fouling down to the breech where it stays. If that were true, then driving a lubed prb down a fouled barrel would do the same thing. So many boast of how many shots they can fire without wiping. What they are actually saying is sometimes my barrel is so caked with fouling, I can't load another ball without cleaning. I don't get that. Why not make every shot from a clean barrel? That is the very definition of consistency. Why pound subsequent shots down a dirty barrel when that load might have been as easy to seat as the one before? Why? The only rational answer has to be that the shooter has a legitimate need to shoot that next shot quickly, or he just does not want to. We have that freedom. I have loaded a dirty barrel myself when circumstances dictated a fast reload was advantageous. But how often is not wiping an advantage? I mean how long does it take to run down a wet patch and then another to dry? Or even two to dry. Less than a minute. We have that much time to make the next shot the best it can be. Such is my useless opinion.

When I got my first M.L. I didn't know squat about it so I bought prelubed patches and the right size ball and took the gun to the range to try it out. I was pleasantly surprised with the accuracy but the loading was a different matter, It was harder than I thought it should be so I swabbed the barrel with a patch of old tee shirt to get the loose debri out of the barrel. I learned real quick to not push the patch down in one push but to go about eight or twelve inches and pull it back a few inches before going down futher. If I didn't it would get stuck! I mean really stuck hard! I also noticed my groups seemed to be tighter with this method? I can say I have shot a three shot group with each ball in a one oval hole at a hundred yards on my first try . This was using a rest at a bench of course. I haven't tried any other method other than not wiping the bore and that isn't easy to do but with a patch down the bore I have no problems loading nor keeping shots where I was aiming! I also know that there are several ways that work other than mine but a dry patch made from old tee shirts doesn't cost me any thing and it works for me?

 

[tenngun]

The most ever and hotly debated subject ever here.

How long will it go on?

I wasn’t recommending any one do it, in any way. However that solid whoops of air makes sure vent or touch hole is clear.