1861 Springfield Nipple Replacement

[Zonie]

Given the choice I would go with the easy to screw in nipples.
They are less likely to wear out the soft steel of the breech where the nipple screws in.

When I mentioned that a similar sized thread to the ones that easily screw in that takes a bit of wrenching I was thinking you had a nipple with similar threads but with a #11 cap nipple on it.

If you do have this combination I was just suggesting that it could be used if light wrenching is all it takes to install it.

If you do decide to go with the tighter fitting nipple, put a drop of Anti-Seize on the threads to ease installation and to prevent galling.

You can buy a tiny tube of this Anti-Seize for a couple of bucks at any auto supply store.

 

[ihuntsnook]

Curious as to what your final results are. I made the swith to #11 nipples because I had a thousand plus caps, but had more misfires with them as opposed to musket caps. May have more to do with loading than caps. Anxious to hear how you make out.

 

[cschibi]

Finally, got to shoot my musket. :grin:

1st - 3rd Shots with 60Gr Pyrodex FFG, 530 gr Minie Ball at 25Yrds
1/2 inch low and right of center (Bulls Eye)

4th - 7th Shots, 75 Gr Pyrodex FFG, 530gr Minie Ball at 100 Yards, 4= 4"High to the Left. 5= 2"Low 1/2" left of dead center.

6= 3" High 2" right of dead center. 7= 4" High 3" Right of Dead Center.

As you can see, I have some work to do here.

Just having too much fun of shooting this.

BTW... Used CCI Musket Caps 301 with DGW stainless nipples. Swabbed the barrel after each shot with TC #13 bore cleaner.

Just beginning to figure this out...

 

[Jason Lewis]

can you post a picture of your target? from what i can understand you're kind of spraying them.

 

[Zonie]

Good luck with your TC #13 bore cleaner.

I received a bottle of that when I bought a used muzzleloader and decided to try it in a few of my C&B pistols I had just fired at the range.

It cleaned them all right but when I ran the clean patch to dry the bore it came out rusty. :cursing:

I couldn't believe that my bore could rust that quickly so I got one of my clean, totally rust free pistols and tried cleaning it's bore with the #13.

After running the #13 soaked patch down the bore I immediately ran a dry patch.
It came out with a light coating of rust on it!! :cursing: :cursing:

I recleaned both pistols using water with a drop of dishwashing soap in it.
The bores cleaned up nicely, the drying patches came out without a trace of rust and the bores were then protected with Barricade.

Never again will I use TC #13 to clean or wipe a bore on any gun I own. :shake:

Your results may vary.

 

[cschibi]

Mr. Zonie...

Thank you for that advice. So, what should I use to clean the bore between shots...? I have my BC Barricade for end of day shooting cleaning but what makes sense as I am trying to Zone in "No pun" intended :haha: on learning my sighting system and load / shot distance variations?

 

[Zonie]

A little water, spit or alcohol can be used.

In any case, the patch should be damp, not wet.

A wiping method I've found effective is to run the damp patch down the bore to the breech plug face.

Count to 5 and then pull the damp patch back out of the bore.

The waiting period allows the fouling to absorb the water from the patch and become soft.
Then, when the patch is pulled back out of the bore a nearly clean bore is left behind.

One dry cleaning patch once down and back out of the barrel will dry it sufficiently to allow loading the next shot without the powder becoming wet.

(Note: sometimes a totally dry patch will freeze in place in the bore when you run it down or try to pull it out.
If this ever happens, pour about a teaspoon of water down the bore, count to three and then the stuck patch will easily be pulled back out.)

Personally, I keep reading all of these, "SWAB THE BORE WITH EVERY SHOT!!!", but I'm not a believer.

I've seen more muzzleloaders (temporarily) put out of action by folks using too much water or by pushing fouling crud down into the vent hole or chambered breech than its worth to me.
(They always get a confused look when the gun refuses to fire because important passages are plugged up by their work.)

The number of shots I can get without swabbing depends on the powder load, the caliber, the type of powder, the type of lube and the humidity to name just a few things.

That said, I can almost always get at least 4 shots off before ramming the patched ball starts to get a little difficult. When it does, Then I wipe the bore.

 

[cschibi]

Mr. Zonie..

As usual, thank your for your expertise, you truly help guys like me. Question...

Is there any variation in your recommendation here with the powder and load used i.e. (Pyrodex vs. Goex)?

 

[M. De Land]

Use straight black and throw the Phyrodex in the creek! :rotf: Just kidding, I've shot a fare amount of it both in rifle and revolver but never found it to work as well for me as does Goex or Swiss straight black, especially when used in cold weather. It is more corrosive than black alone as far as I can tell.
I do like to use a five grain kicker charge of Reloader 7 and the remainder BP in my 45-70 black powder cartridge loads in cold weather.They shoot clean as a whistle and I can go the whole match without cleaning if I want to.Which brings up a good safety point to mention.
NO DUPLEXING OF ANY KIND WITH MUZZLE LOADING ARMS IS SAFE !!!!!!!!!!!!! MD

 

[George T.]

I don't think that I have had a rifle you could screw in the nipple more than a turn and a half with your fingers. Even with a wrench you can use caution and not cross thread them. I always use teflon pipe dope or anti sieze when I put
them back in. I also use a bore brush to clean out the threads both male and female!

It can sure be a problem finding the right replacement nipple but so far I have been lucky

I am currently trying to get the front sight set on a Zolie 58 cal.. It shot low so I added material and am now fileing down to point of impact! It's a good thing I enjoy shooting as it has been going on a while! Geo. T.

 

[cschibi]

I am assuming Duplexing means mixing powder charge types (i.e. Pyrodex and Goex). Did I get that correct?

 

[Zonie]

My take on loading Pyrodex in place of GOEX:
The Pyrodex's higher ignition temperature sometimes causes noticeable delays after the cap fires.
Usually it is almost instantaneous but not always.

Consider Pyro RS to be similar to GOEX 2Fg and Pyro P to be similar to GOEX 3Fg when it comes to the amount of powder to load.

That is, a 70 grain powder charge of Pyro RS will produce similar pressures and velocities as a 70 grain powder charge of GOEX 2Fg.

This is not the case with 777 which is about 15 percent more powerful than either real black powder or Pyrodex and Somebody's GOLD powder which is much weaker than just about any other muzzleloading powder on the market.

Duplexing is using two different powders in a load.
They are not mixed together but rather, one powder is loaded first with the other powder on top of it.
The first powder acts as a easily ignited "starter" for the second powder.

I won't get into mixing smokeless powders with black powders because (IMO) even in a cartridge gun its asking for trouble but in a muzzleloader it is risking arms, eyes and guns.
NEVER use ANY type of smokeless powder in a muzzleloader.

Getting back to the duplex load, muzzleloaders who are shooting synthetic powder in their flintlocks are pretty much in agreement that the only way to get the flintlock to fire reliably is to pour a "starter" load of real black powder down the barrel first followed by the synthetic BP.

The easily lit black powder ignites from the pans flash and it in turn ignites the synthetic powder.

This idea of a duplex muzzleloading charge is used on almost all of those expensive Pyrodex and 777 pellets. That's why they must be loaded with the black starter charge towards the cap.

My advice is unless a person is trying to get rid of a synthetic powder in their flintlock they should forget duplex loads.

As for shooting Pyrodex, it leaves considerably less fouling than black powder.
Wiping the bore when using Pyrodex is usually not needed during a days worth of shooting.

As for the corrosive effects of Pyrodex, it is about the same as real black powder.
Thoroughly cleaning the barrel is required with either powder as soon as possible after shooting.
Failure to clean the barrel with either will cause corrosion of the steel surfaces.

 

[M. De Land]

Duplexing with smokeless is what I'm referring to in a cartridge gun Chris. This should never be done in a muzzle loading arm.
It has been done in black powder cartridge guns since the beginning of smokeless powder and is completely safe if limited to no more than a ten percent kicker charge.
It was used routinely in the Schutzen era and before semi- smokeless and smokeless powder it was done with finer grades of Black.
I guess you could say it was even done with flinter's as it is common to use finer BP powder in the frizzen pan.MD

 

[cschibi]

Mr. Zonie...

As usual. Your expertise and wisdom has been extremely informatively to me. Thank you. Your commitment to this forum and it's members is greatly appreciated!

I am somewhat embarrassed to even submit this image but here is my latest range results...with my 1861 springfield musket. This was executed with 60 grains of Pyrodex at 25 & 50 yards...
http://i1272.photobucket.com/albums/y397/cschibi/Muzzleloading/IMAG0271.jpg

 

[Zonie]

Don't be embarrassed.

While there are some of our members who have rifled muskets that shoot very accurately, that didn't come easy and they have worked very hard to get tight groups.

As you've probably noticed, the trigger pull on these guns is quite heavy and that is (in part) a carryover of the original guns.
They were not target rifles and the Military really didn't want light trigger pulls.

A heavy trigger pull was thought to prevent wild shots, fired in the heat of battle by the troopers.

The sights on my Zouave and to a lesser degree on my Parker-Hale Musketoon, 2 band and 3 band are not the most precision things in the world either.

All of the rifled muskets were (are) battle rifles made for killing/wounding men. Not squirrel guns made for taking the heads off of dinner.

Don't give up though.
You'll get better as you become more accustom to your gun and learn what it likes to shoot.

 

[cschibi]

Mr. Zonie.

So here is the "hundred dollar question"...? :wink:

Should I continue to shoot / experiment with my Pyrodex and attempt to zero in with my springfield with this powder load and powder type OR should I experiment with different powder (i.e. Goex) loads to see what works more effectively?

Thoughts?

 

[Zonie]

That depends on how available real black powder is and whether you are willing to pay the price for it.

There is absolutely no doubt that the real black powder will ignite faster and more reliably.

Its pressures in the breech will be more consistent resulting in more consistent shot placement.

Real black powder will create more fouling in the bore but if you are shooting slightly undersize Minie' bullets this shouldn't be a major problem.

If you are shooting patched .570 diameter roundballs it may be more of an issue.

If it was a major hassle for me to buy real black powder but granulated Pyrodex was readily available I would probably stay with the Pyrodex and put my efforts toward develop accurate loads with it.

Speaking of Pyrodex, I don't recall what type you are shooting.
Whatever it is, don't forget to try the other type, that is, if you are using Pyrodex RS, buy a pound of Pyrodex P and give it a try.
It may shoot better or worse but without trying it, you'll never know.

While I'm talking about Pyrodex, I tried the "Select" type (which cost more) and IMO it was worse than either the "RS" or the "P" when it comes to accuracy.

 

[cschibi]

Mr. Zonie,

I probably should have been more technically specific on my powder type. I have been shooting Pyrodex 2FG (RS). I have some (3FG) (P) that I use with my 1858 new Army Rem pistol. I also have just acquired through a somewhat painful and expensive effort 5LBs of 2FG Goex.

So, my range dates thus far I have only shot Pyrodex 2FG. (You have seen my 1st set of results). Muzzleloader deer season in Missouri opens up in Mid December. I have a planned a Dec 20th deer hunt which OBTW....follows rifle season. Realistically, I am only going to get 1 maybe 2 more range dates between now and then...to tighten everything up. Should I even introduce the Goex variable at this late stage?

Thoughts and advice are welcome!

 

[Zonie]

I would, only because by using real black powder, there is less chance of a mis-fire when you find your deer.

Speaking of deer hunting with a caplock, another little trick to do on opening morning when you load your gun is, after the main powder charge and projectile have been rammed, and before putting the cap on the nipple, point the muzzle in a safe direction.
Then, remove the nipple and pour a few granules of black powder into the threaded hole.
Replace the nipple and install the cap.

Doing this will add some extra fire to the main powder charge when the cap fires and almost guarantees the shot will fire.

 

[cschibi]

Mr. Zonie...

:grin: Very Cool! Thank you. It's advice like that that that helps put "Meat" in the freezer, so to speak! Unfortunately, I am running on a 4 year venison drought... my last venison was a buck i.e. a 10 pointer (My first BTW...) I took with a bow in 2008.

Thanks again for your advice!