1861 Springfield Repro First Time Clean and Protectant Question

[dave951]

I oil the bore for storage and between matches with Rem Oil. I also store the gun MUZZLE DOWN to keep oil from migrating into the flash channel. Prior to a match our shooting again, I just run a couple dry patches and snap some caps and off to the firing line.

Now it seems like you're on top of the pin gauge thing. You have to know that for certain. Use only pure lead for minies. If you just want to try some designs out, contact Pat aka Civilwar Bullet man at Lodgewood. He's a fellow N-SSA competitor and knows muskets.

Sounds like you have the powder sorted. I shoot 3f Old E. Some guns prefer 2f. That's a case by case thing.

Caps-avoid CCI like Ebola if you want consistency and accuracy. That leaves RWS and Schutzen, both are good.

Bullet lube- natural based only and you'll have to experiment. My main line is 50/50 beeswax/lard with a touch of lanolin. I vary the proportions depending on season.

 

[TDDredge]

I oil the bore for storage and between matches with Rem Oil. I also store the gun MUZZLE DOWN to keep oil from migrating into the flash channel. Prior to a match our shooting again, I just run a couple dry patches and snap some caps and off to the firing line.

Now it seems like you're on top of the pin gauge thing. You have to know that for certain. Use only pure lead for minies. If you just want to try some designs out, contact Pat aka Civilwar Bullet man at Lodgewood. He's a fellow N-SSA competitor and knows muskets.

Sounds like you have the powder sorted. I shoot 3f Old E. Some guns prefer 2f. That's a case by case thing.

Caps-avoid CCI like Ebola if you want consistency and accuracy. That leaves RWS and Schutzen, both are good.

Bullet lube- natural based only and you'll have to experiment. My main line is 50/50 beeswax/lard with a touch of lanolin. I vary the proportions depending on season.

Yeah I think I'm going to lean to the synthetic clps for protection. At this point it seems like water to clean, isopropyl alcohol to dry, then some clp, and before I take it out to use it, run a bit more isopropyl through it to get any extra protectant out.

I hear you on the lead minies. To start I'll get bullets from track of the wolf and resize as necessary. Once I can bleed a little more money I'll start thinking about casting my own, and I'll be sure to use pure lead.

I had heard the cci caps were trash. Couldn't find any rws in stock, was able to find schutzen. Already have 500 of them on my ammo shelves you were the first person to mention it, I figured firing caps through might be important. You do it before every time you take the gun out?

For bullet lube I've already got 5 pounds of beeswax pellets and 3 pounds of hydrogenated lard (only lard local store had) ready to go. Have to admit I'll never use lanolin. Grew up on a farm with sheep. I have a special hatred for them and their foul excretion. So I'll start with just beeswax and lard, and go from there. Figure out what charges, mass and bullet lube blend I really like.

Thank you for all of your expertise here, you clearly have a wealth of knowledge, as have many of the people who have responded here!

 

[dave951]

Yeah I think I'm going to lean to the synthetic clps for protection. At this point it seems like water to clean, isopropyl alcohol to dry, then some clp, and before I take it out to use it, run a bit more isopropyl through it to get any extra protectant out.

I hear you on the lead minies. To start I'll get bullets from track of the wolf and resize as necessary. Once I can bleed a little more money I'll start thinking about casting my own, and I'll be sure to use pure lead.

I had heard the cci caps were trash. Couldn't find any rws in stock, was able to find schutzen. Already have 500 of them on my ammo shelves you were the first person to mention it, I figured firing caps through might be important. You do it before every time you take the gun out?

For bullet lube I've already got 5 pounds of beeswax pellets and 3 pounds of hydrogenated lard (only lard local store had) ready to go. Have to admit I'll never use lanolin. Grew up on a farm with sheep. I have a special hatred for them and their foul excretion. So I'll start with just beeswax and lard, and go from there. Figure out what charges, mass and bullet lube blend I really like.

Thank you for all of your expertise here, you clearly have a wealth of knowledge, as have many of the people who have responded here!

For cleaning Windex with ammonia is really hard to beat. It's water, alcohol and ammonia. All the stuff you mentioned in one handy mix.

Minies- while I like Track on round ball stuff, the only source I'd trust for proper minies is Pat at Lodgewood. Civil War guns as their primary stuff.

Snapping caps- yes both to clear residual oil from the flash channel before loading and at the end of shooting to ensure the gun is clear.

Lube-dip lube the minies base first to cover the grooves the set aside to cool. Putting anything in the base is not needed. If you get the lube and powder in balance you should be able to shoot till you run out of ammo, shoulder, or daylight without wiping.

Avoid Utoob like the plague. Much of what's on there is either incorrect, incomplete or downright dangerous. Lots of "reenactorisms" find the way into the pubic mind and son become "common" knowledge.

If you're really serious about these guns, I'd invite you to hang out with us in the North South Skirmish Association. We shoot Civil War arms in competition and that includes artillery. You can't play with cannon in 3G. I used to shoot lots of 3G but I'd rather do this any day. And yeah, I'm on a cannon crew at position #2 on a 6lb rifled howitzer.

 

[TDDredge]

For cleaning Windex with ammonia is really hard to beat. It's water, alcohol and ammonia. All the stuff you mentioned in one handy mix.

Minies- while I like Track on round ball stuff, the only source I'd trust for proper minies is Pat at Lodgewood. Civil War guns as their primary stuff.

Snapping caps- yes both to clear residual oil from the flash channel before loading and at the end of shooting to ensure the gun is clear.

Lube-dip lube the minies base first to cover the grooves the set aside to cool. Putting anything in the base is not needed. If you get the lube and powder in balance you should be able to shoot till you run out of ammo, shoulder, or daylight without wiping.

Avoid Utoob like the plague. Much of what's on there is either incorrect, incomplete or downright dangerous. Lots of "reenactorisms" find the way into the pubic mind and son become "common" knowledge.

If you're really serious about these guns, I'd invite you to hang out with us in the North South Skirmish Association. We shoot Civil War arms in competition and that includes artillery. You can't play with cannon in 3G. I used to shoot lots of 3G but I'd rather do this any day. And yeah, I'm on a cannon crew at position #2 on a 6lb rifled howitzer.

Noted on all this stuff.

Little question with the caps: i'm making an assumption but can't currently 100% confirm this. I saved my pennies, and I went with a pedersoli 1861 springfield repro. I'm assuming the nipple is sized for musket caps? That seems like it's likely a general rule of thumb that I can assume, but I'm not 100% on that because I can't seem to find that information anywhere.

Was figuring on lubrication of the minies that I'd leave them in a pan, pour the lube up until the grooves were covered, then let it cool, and pull them out gently with pliers. Is dipping the better method? I can easily make a cutout piece of wood to help scrape extra lube off.

I am not 100% sure on getting into reenacting yet, I do intend to poke around the local groups (I live in idaho so unfortunately no on-location skirmishes but here we are). I have worked professionally on some large caliber smooth bore guns for a research lab. To put it lightly, I absolutely love artillery. I fully intend to someday figure out alchemy, create a bunch of platinum, sell it, and buy a 3" parrott gun. I swear I'll figure it out. So yes, if I was going to reenact, I'd be looking into artillery.

 

[dave951]

Yes on musket caps.

Dip lube minies. Pan lube gets stuff in the base.

NO the N-SSA aren't reenactors, we shoot live ammunition for score.

 

[TDDredge]

Yes on musket caps.

Dip lube minies. Pan lube gets stuff in the base.

NO the N-SSA aren't reenactors, we shoot live ammunition for score.

Oh so then you're the guys who do the 1000yds+ cannon competitions too?

 

[Steveoko922]

Any particular thing you like to use in the bore?

Castor oil for long term, olive or almond oil short term. My wife has a ton of it laying around from her pregnancy. Used it for stretch marks. I've started using Sno seal to lube my bullets and the bore. It's all natural and costs LESS than bore butter

 

[Steveoko922]

Oh so then you're the guys who do the 1000yds+ cannon competitions too?

Rifle muskets are capable of long range target work. Man sized target work that is up to 600 yards. Historical targets were very large.The NSSA doesnt practice historical musketry, a pity really.

 

[TDDredge]

Rifle muskets are capable of long range target work. Man sized target work that is up to 600 yards. Historical targets were very large.The NSSA doesnt practice historical musketry, a pity really.

That's a hell of a lot of drop at 600 yards! Not an easy shot with a bullet that slow, though to be fair it's so heavy it ought to at least buck wind fairly well.

 

[Steveoko922]

That's a hell of a lot of drop at 600 yards! Not an easy shot with a bullet that slow, though to be fair it's so heavy it ought to at least buck wind fairly well.

That's the fun in it. There are many accounts of long range shots being made during the crimean war with Minié rifle. British p53s shooting paper patched pritchett cartridges. Go to papercartridges.com for as much rifle musket history as you can possibly soak up.

 

[Steveoko922]

That's a hell of a lot of drop at 600 yards! Not an easy shot with a bullet that slow, though to be fair it's so heavy it ought to at least buck wind fairly well.

I have a P53 and 1861 I hunt with. Taken a handful of deer with them and regularly ring a 36×36 gong up to 400 yards. Combat accuracy at its finest.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Hello all!

I am new to black powder, and absolutely got into it to get into historical guns (or reproductions thereof...), and I am in the act of acquiring a reproduction 1861 Springfield. As someone who shoots modern smokeless guns quite a bit (I shoot 2 and 3 gun), there are a lot of things that are quite different, and a few details I would like to make sure I have right. I want to take care of this gun, I am sure it will be a beautiful rifle, and I wish to keep it so.

I assume, as with modern firearms, that the gun should be cleaned before the first use. Would you do this as you would normally clean the musket? My cleaning plan is outlined below (bearing in mind right when I get it one of the first things I'll do is remove the nipple and grease it with choke grease, and I'm fairly sure you're supposed to fire some percussion caps on their own with no main charge, to make sure to really blast the touch hole clear):

Use a piece of leather to seal the nipple
Pour hot water down the barrel
Let it sit for 10 minutes to really dissolve the fouling
Pour it out
Repeat that again
Fill the barrel part way, cover the muzzle with my thumb, and slosh the water around
Repeat that until the water comes out clean
Run dry patches until they come out dry (and maybe blow some compressed or canned air into the nipple to dry it out thoroughly)
Run protectant down the barrel, maybe poke a little into the nipple with a patch

My other big question is this: does anyone use things like slip 2000 CLP on their muskets as a protectant for the metal? I love how well it works on my other firearms, but I don't know if you would treat this differently or if there are any issues with slip 2000 and muskets, so I am turning to your experience and knowledge! It has crossed my mind at least a bit that in theory the same lube used for the bullets (in my case I'm starting out mixing 50% beeswax and 50% lard) could also be used for this purpose?

Other than these things, how often would you do a full breakdown, remove the barrel bands/barrel, lock, etc, and should I do that right out the gate? Should I linseed oil the stock right out the gate, and if not, how often do most of you do it?

Thank you very much for your knowledge and wisdom here!

Tom

You have been given some very good instructions for cleaning your musket after firing and you need to deal with the accumulation of fouling. There have been hints of the first cleaning of a musket that has been packed full of preservation grease, but little specific details.

For one, water won't dissolve that grease in the bore and flash channel. You will need your isopropyl alcohol. The leather plug won't really stop the solution from leaking out of the nipple seat and the alcohol can harm the finish. Go to the hardware store and get a plug (8mm -1 according to the Pedersoli web site: Set 3 nipples for Mississippi, Richmond, Springfield 1861, Zouave (davide-pedersoli.com) ). Use the plug to stop solvent from leaking. Do the soaking of the breech with rubbing alcohol, slosh the alcohol around and dump it out. Remove the plug and use a patch to collect solvent as you run some alcohol soaked patches to verify the grease has been removed. Run a pipe cleaner with rubbing alcohol from the nipple seat to the powder chamber. You can and probably should do this initial cleaning with the barrel removed from the musket. Once it is clean, use an evaporating filming rust inhibitor such as Barricade, EezOx or 2000 CLP to protect the bore and flash channel. Use a never seizing grease on the nipple threads. I suggest that you get a good nipple wrench sized for a musket. Get some good hollow ground screwdrivers that fit each of slots of your screws. Nothing is uglier than screw slots that have been marred because of the use of ill fitting screw drivers.

Black powder fouling either from real black powder or the common substitute black powders is soluble in water. If you use a greasy lubricant on your Minie' balls, add some grease cutting dish washing soap to take the grease out. Water won't remove all the greasy fouling. Some people call that residue seasoning, but it is a layer of burnt grease and fouling. Follow the soap and water wash with dry patches then some patches soaked with either rubbing alcohol or WD40 to displace any remaining water. Now is the time for application of the rust inhibiting film.

With the gun disassembled, look to determine if you will need to glass bed the breech. Most rifles and muskets could stand some glass bedding at the breech. With a solid breech, it is time to apply a decent wax to the stock, barrel channel and the barrel or you can grease the barrel. Note: the water pump grease is petroleum based, but since this is on the outside of the bore its not a problem. In fact many of our favorite lubricants such as Ballistol can trace a petroleum lineage.

Go to the art store to get your linseed oil as hardware store linseed may not have all the driers needed. Linseed oil takes a very long time to dry so apply an oil with driers.

When you load use a volumetric powder measure. All the propellants used are designed to perform to the equivalent of a black powder load measured by volume. On a powder scale, 60 grains of your 2fg Olde Eynsford will be 60 grains. That same measure set to 60 grains will throw a measure of Pyrodex that weighs closer to 50 grains.

Be prepared for some fun.

 

[TDDredge]

You have been given some very good instructions for cleaning your musket after firing and you need to deal with the accumulation of fouling. There have been hints of the first cleaning of a musket that has been packed full of preservation grease, but little specific details.

For one, water won't dissolve that grease in the bore and flash channel. You will need your isopropyl alcohol. The leather plug won't really stop the solution from leaking out of the nipple seat and the alcohol can harm the finish. Go to the hardware store and get a plug (8mm -1 according to the Pedersoli web site: Set 3 nipples for Mississippi, Richmond, Springfield 1861, Zouave (davide-pedersoli.com) ). Use the plug to stop solvent from leaking. Do the soaking of the breech with rubbing alcohol, slosh the alcohol around and dump it out. Remove the plug and use a patch to collect solvent as you run some alcohol soaked patches to verify the grease has been removed. Run a pipe cleaner with rubbing alcohol from the nipple seat to the powder chamber. You can and probably should do this initial cleaning with the barrel removed from the musket. Once it is clean, use an evaporating filming rust inhibitor such as Barricade, EezOx or 2000 CLP to protect the bore and flash channel. Use a never seizing grease on the nipple threads. I suggest that you get a good nipple wrench sized for a musket. Get some good hollow ground screwdrivers that fit each of slots of your screws. Nothing is uglier than screw slots that have been marred because of the use of ill fitting screw drivers.

Black powder fouling either from real black powder or the common substitute black powders is soluble in water. If you use a greasy lubricant on your Minie' balls, add some grease cutting dish washing soap to take the grease out. Water won't remove all the greasy fouling. Some people call that residue seasoning, but it is a layer of burnt grease and fouling. Follow the soap and water wash with dry patches then some patches soaked with either rubbing alcohol or WD40 to displace any remaining water. Now is the time for application of the rust inhibiting film.

With the gun disassembled, look to determine if you will need to glass bed the breech. Most rifles and muskets could stand some glass bedding at the breech. With a solid breech, it is time to apply a decent wax to the stock, barrel channel and the barrel or you can grease the barrel. Note: the water pump grease is petroleum based, but since this is on the outside of the bore its not a problem. In fact many of our favorite lubricants such as Ballistol can trace a petroleum lineage.

Go to the art store to get your linseed oil as hardware store linseed may not have all the driers needed. Linseed oil takes a very long time to dry so apply an oil with driers.

When you load use a volumetric powder measure. All the propellants used are designed to perform to the equivalent of a black powder load measured by volume. On a powder scale, 60 grains of your 2fg Olde Eynsford will be 60 grains. That same measure set to 60 grains will throw a measure of Pyrodex that weighs closer to 50 grains.

Be prepared for some fun.

This is great stuff, thank you!

While I didn't directly comment it, I was only going to use isopropyl for the initial clean since there would be no powder fouling. You confirmed this.

Already have a nipple wrench on the way with a ramrod long enough for the gun and a couple tools like a bullet puller. So that is covered already, I am waiting until it arrives to get screw drivers because I know those Italian screws have a narrower slot.

What kind of wax do you use? I was figuring I'd just use some of my beeswax? As for grease, I was going to use shotgun choke grease on the nipple threads as well as the outside of the barrel in contact with the stock, unless that seems like a poor idea for some reason I do not know?

Thank you for the linseed oil tip, I'll make sure to get it from a craft store!

I have several powder measures, of the simple brass tube with adjustable plunger type. I figure I'll start around 40 grains of powder and go from there, to really see what works best for the gun. Part of the fun of this is how much experimentation I'll get to do!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Bee's wax works for the stock wax, but it is softer than something like Johnson and Johnson's paste wax. You could go whole hog and get Renaissance Paste Wax, but unless you are keeping your musket in a museum, its not really necessary.

With linseed oil, you must make sure your cloth that contacts the oil must dry flat with plenty of ventilation to prevent spontaneous combustion.

 

[TDDredge]

Bee's wax works for the stock wax, but it is softer than something like Johnson and Johnson's paste wax. You could go whole hog and get Renaissance Paste Wax, but unless you are keeping your musket in a museum, its not really necessary.

With linseed oil, you must make sure your cloth that contacts the oil must dry flat with plenty of ventilation to prevent spontaneous combustion.

I presume the combustibility goes down drastically once dry? I have a grounding mat on the way, that could help with any risks there as well.

 

[bang]

Definitely seems like a full tear down upon arrival would not be a bad idea at all. Use some beeswax to wax the barrel channel, and maybe a little choke grease on the outer surface of the barrel that's touching the stock. What kind of oil do you use in the bore? Have you ever used a CLP like slip 2000? I periodically see things saying to avoid petroleum products, and that they will gum up with the black powder residue, which is what prompts that question. If I can, I'd love to use a good CLP for that purpose, and slip 2000 has left me quite happy with all of the modern firearms I own, but I'm not familiar enough with black powder yet. So I guess it boils down to, do you use a petroleum based oil, or do you stick with an animal/plant oil? Any particular products you use?

For short term storage I use gun oil or comparable. If storing long term I use a grease. I've also used a mixture of 75% wax and 25% veggie oil cooked together. Makes a good general lube or protection if typical items aren't readily available.
For cleaning flash channel I use a small container of cleaning solution with a hose on the nipple the draw and push solution through with a tight patch. Pour a little alcohol down the barrel to displace moisture.

 

[Grenadier1758]

@TDDredge, you might find this flush nipple useful for when you don't remove the barrel from the stock.

Flush Nipple, 8-1mm thread, stainless steel, with 1/4" square shank for nipple wrench, fits Italian Springfield replicas - Track of the Wolf

 

[Stantheman86]

Would you say that water works similarly or as well as a good black powder solvent? I'll probably look into some eezox. If water works and is fairly effective, then it seems to me like a great option, because as it so happens that's what comes out of the tap! If I don't need to buy anything in the powder solvent front, I won't. But if it isn't the best method, then I'll look into what the best method is. From my research into black powder (which wasn't entirely comprehensive hence this post and question), black powder is not nearly so formulaic as smokeless powder guns. They're easy. Get the ammo, shoot it. Clean with smokeless powder solvent. Use CLP. Rinse and repeat. Black powder? Eh, see what charge you like! Probably don't go over X number of grains, but sure, play around with it! Greasing your bullets? Eh, start with X and Y ingredients, but don't forget you can possibly add P, Q and R as well! Play with it, see what you get! I love it, this will be a bit of an experiment. But cleaning I definitely want to try and zero in on a good method quickly, and it does seem as though hot water is a good way to go. I just also want to make sure using CLP like slip 2000 is a good choice for protectant. Thank you for the info here!

With muzzleloading, especially repros or originals of Military rifles. You can simply replicate the service charge of 60 gr of 2f and a .575 Minie ball. Probably get about 4" at 100 which was the acceptable accuracy according to the Ordnance Dept in 1855.

However, that's where the powder tweaking, bullet experimenting , etc etc come in if you want tighter groups.

I shoot .570 round balls through my ArmiSport Richmond and get great accuracy. After 3 range trips of load development.

Water neutralizes the corrosive salts in Blackpowder . Most if not all BP solvents contain water. You can just use water or soapy water and just swab the bore. It's messy but you have to get the flash channel flushed and the breech.

Eezox protects from rust better than anything I've used.

 

[Stantheman86]

Noted on all this stuff.

Little question with the caps: i'm making an assumption but can't currently 100% confirm this. I saved my pennies, and I went with a pedersoli 1861 springfield repro. I'm assuming the nipple is sized for musket caps? That seems like it's likely a general rule of thumb that I can assume, but I'm not 100% on that because I can't seem to find that information anywhere.

Was figuring on lubrication of the minies that I'd leave them in a pan, pour the lube up until the grooves were covered, then let it cool, and pull them out gently with pliers. Is dipping the better method? I can easily make a cutout piece of wood to help scrape extra lube off.

I am not 100% sure on getting into reenacting yet, I do intend to poke around the local groups (I live in idaho so unfortunately no on-location skirmishes but here we are). I have worked professionally on some large caliber smooth bore guns for a research lab. To put it lightly, I absolutely love artillery. I fully intend to someday figure out alchemy, create a bunch of platinum, sell it, and buy a 3" parrott gun. I swear I'll figure it out. So yes, if I was going to reenact, I'd be looking into artillery.

Don't forget about Sizing the Minies.

You can get a .577 sizer from Dixie.

If you buy them cast the Minies might have dropped out of the mold oversized. Get a .582 Minie jammed in the pipe of your rifle and it's gonna be a hassle.

When Remington and other manufacturers cast Minies originally, they sized them.

 

[Widows Son]

A handy little tool is a breech scraper. It’s a ramrod tool made of brass that looks like a hollow-ground screwdriver bit.
I like to twirl it against the breech face a few times to break up crusty fouling. I do this before I use water in the bore.

I don’t have a musket, but I use that little scraper in my shotgun and rifles.