1861 Springfield

[dylan84]

What would a decent price be for a serviceable Civil War era Springfield? I know anything that old will need inspected very closely, but even if I had to have a barrel made or lined for it I think it would be sweet to have an old one! I see them for sale all the time on auction sites and are definitely not rare. I kind of figure if I could get Bobby Hoyt to line the original barrel then I could go faster twist and have a heck of a shooter that looked like it was a battlefield pickup from over 100 years ago!

Thanks for any and all opinions on the matter and Happy New Year!

 

[dave951]

In the N-SSA, there are more than a few competitors using relined originals that aren't up to collector snuff and some are original barrels. Condition is everything and dictates price. Also the mind of the seller can be problematic. If you get someone who thinks just because it's "Civil War" it's worth a mint, then move on.

One other thing here, there are reenactors who have their rifles "defarbed" meaning all modern repop markings are removed and the rifle made to be as close to an original as possible. There have been cases where that's happened and the reenactor passes and his estate sells his "original" Civil War rifle.

So for a "shooter" grade musket, you'll be in the $750ish range. I'd insist on a right of refusal upon inspection of anything you buy and get to know somebody who is very knowledgeable on these. One very good source is Lodgewood. Good luck and buyer beware.

 

[dylan84]

In the N-SSA, there are more than a few competitors using relined originals that aren't up to collector snuff and some are original barrels. Condition is everything and dictates price. Also the mind of the seller can be problematic. If you get someone who thinks just because it's "Civil War" it's worth a mint, then move on.

One other thing here, there are reenactors who have their rifles "defarbed" meaning all modern repop markings are removed and the rifle made to be as close to an original as possible. There have been cases where that's happened and the reenactor passes and his estate sells his "original" Civil War rifle.

So for a "shooter" grade musket, you'll be in the $750ish range. I'd insist on a right of refusal upon inspection of anything you buy and get to know somebody who is very knowledgeable on these. One very good source is Lodgewood. Good luck and buyer beware.

Thanks for your response. Hopefully I can find some closer to look at. I dislike the idea of buying one from online auctions as you don't know what you bought really until you finally received it.

 

[TDM]

One of my Sons built one. He found a very good original stock, a good lock and trigger assembly. And collected all the other hardware separately. He had Tom Whitacre of Whitacre's Machine Shop in Virginia build a new barrel for it. It's a good, dependable shooter now.

 

[dylan84]

One of my Sons built one. He found a very good original stock, a good lock and trigger assembly. And collected all the other hardware separately. He had Tom Whitacre of Whitacre's Machine Shop in Virginia build a new barrel for it. It's a good, dependable shooter now.

That sounds like a great idea. I was also looking at the Rifle Shoppe. Looks like they can piece one together. I'm growing more and more leery of Italian reproductions the more I see if them. If the proper deal could be had then great but $1500 for a pedersoli seems a bit steep. I would rather have $1500 plus in something more original or at least something I had hand fit myself.

 

[TDM]

That sounds like a great idea. I was also looking at the Rifle Shoppe. Looks like they can piece one together. I'm growing more and more leery of Italian reproductions the more I see if them. If the proper deal could be had then great but $1500 for a pedersoli seems a bit steep. I would rather have $1500 plus in something more original or at least something I had hand fit myself.

I agree, piecing one together is best of both worlds. And you know what you have. Everything on my Son's gun is original except the barrel. It took him awhile to find everything but he's very happy with.

 

[Stantheman86]

You just missed an 1863 Springfield with a Romano barrel that went for I think $800 on Lodgewoods site.

I paid about $1200 for my 1861 dated Springfield, I havane't fired it yet.

I also feel that my Parker-Hales are good "stand ins" for originals because they are extremely well made, and at least came from the same city as most of the commercially made originals came from. I think of the Parker-Hales as kind of the best compromise, they're repros but also the closest to an original that you can shoot as much as you want, that you can get. Once you reline an original it's not 100% original anymore obviously, it's more like a refurbished original.

 

[pacanis]

I would rather have $1500 plus in something more original

That's what I ended up doing. When I saw the prices of originals I could not justify the prices of the Pedersolis. Which were not in stock at the time anyway.
And it turned out the seller (on Guns International) was just an hour away. He practically delivered it to my door. So I got to look it over, he knocked some off the price and no shipping.

I don't know if it was a deal or not, but 1600 seemed fair.

And it shoots, too.

 

[wganz]

You just missed an 1863 Springfield with a Romano barrel that went for I think $800 on Lodgewoods site.

FWIW, I've met David that runs Lodgewood at N-SSA National match and have bought a number of things from him.
I will personally vouch that he is a standup good guy.

 

[dylan84]

That's what I ended up doing. When I saw the prices of originals I could not justify the prices of the Pedersolis. Which were not in stock at the time anyway.
And it turned out the seller (on Guns International) was just an hour away. He practically delivered it to my door. So I got to look it over, he knocked some off the price and no shipping.

I don't know if it was a deal or not, but 1600 seemed fair.
View attachment 186646

View attachment 186648

And it shoots, too.

That is a fine example! Very nice. I would say that is plenty fair as lodgewood has one maybe just slightly more brand new looking than yours for $3500!

 

[dylan84]

You just missed an 1863 Springfield with a Romano barrel that went for I think $800 on Lodgewoods site.

I paid about $1200 for my 1861 dated Springfield, I havane't fired it yet.

I also feel that my Parker-Hales are good "stand ins" for originals because they are extremely well made, and at least came from the same city as most of the commercially made originals came from. I think of the Parker-Hales as kind of the best compromise, they're repros but also the closest to an original that you can shoot as much as you want, that you can get. Once you reline an original it's not 100% original anymore obviously, it's more like a refurbished original.

I saw that rifle on there. Will they come down on their prices as I saw that one you describe listed for $1350 I believe. They have a Mason for $1800 that is pretty slick. It they would come down a touch that would be a great deal.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

If you are not going to shoot NSSA then buying a nice original and shooting it from time to time could be fun. Buying an original with excellent bore will cost more than what folks are quoting here but then you don't have to worry about spending hundreds more for a replacement barrel or a liner and gunsmithing work to repair a worn out original, not to mention the time lost waiting for stuff to get done.

 

[Artificer]

That's what I ended up doing. When I saw the prices of originals I could not justify the prices of the Pedersolis. Which were not in stock at the time anyway.
And it turned out the seller (on Guns International) was just an hour away. He practically delivered it to my door. So I got to look it over, he knocked some off the price and no shipping.

I don't know if it was a deal or not, but 1600 seemed fair.
View attachment 186646

View attachment 186648

And it shoots, too.

I think you got a very good deal, especially as it is a Colt and there wasn't near as many made as the other makers.

Gus

 

[pacanis]

Thanks guys.
Being a Colt really swung the needle. Until I saw this, then read up on it, I didn't realize Colt made rifles back then. Back when I was collecting I limited myself to going back as far as WWI

It was cleaned up a little *vigorously*. There are scratch marks on the barrel where I guess steel wool wasn't abrasive enough. I'm sure that helped keep the price more affordable.

 

[dylan84]

Just missed a couple of rustier Springfields on an auction. Some went for around $350! Might throw in a higher max bid for this next auction. Yep all the more shootable examples I'm seeing are up there in price. If I could find one with a serviceable lock, stock, and hardware I would be happy. If it looked like new I wouldn't want to shoot it!

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Thanks guys.
Being a Colt really swung the needle. Until I saw this, then read up on it, I didn't realize Colt made rifles back then. Back when I was collecting I limited myself to going back as far as WWI

It was cleaned up a little *vigorously*. There are scratch marks on the barrel where I guess steel wool wasn't abrasive enough. I'm sure that helped keep the price more affordable.

Very nice! Enjoy it!

 

[TDM]

A neat site to look over is the Horse Soldier in Gettysburg. Relics — Horse Soldier
They have just about everything, but deep pockets are required for purchases.

 

[Stantheman86]

I have an original P53 and an 1861, but for the most part I own them for the historical enrichment and I bang away with my repros

 

[Sparkytfl]

I believe that rifle is made from parts, because the Colt ones used different barrel bands and no band springs. So the lock and the stock don't match, don't know about the barrel.

 

[pacanis]

Well, all guns are made from parts
But you are correct, the stock on my rifle is not the stock it left the factory with.

But who is to say if it was replaced by the company armorer 160 years ago, or put together twenty years ago from someone who had gathered all the parts to do so?

There is a number stamped into the stock, suggesting it did time in an armory. Could it have been rearsenaled? Beats me.

Without the parts being serialized I would not know how anyone could tell if every part on his ACW piece was original to that particular gun.
But I am not well versed in these older weapons. So stand to be corrected.