1863 Tower Enfield Percussion 2 Band Short Musket?

[SWOwner]

Well, just picked up another neat musket and need some help identifying some of the proofs, etc. My limited research talks about a 1863 Tower Enfield Percussion 2 Band Short Musket being produced with the barrel reduced by 6 inches, and can be identified by the fact it has only two metal bands securing the barrel to the stock. In British service it was issued to rifleman skirmishers and to sergeants in the line regiments. Many were procured for service in the Civil War. I don't know if that is what I have?

My measurements are 45 1/2 overall length with a 29 inch barrel.

Any help on the proofs would be appreciated. I did find that the "25" represented the bore gauge number (25 gauge was considered the regulation bore size - .577 caliber) .

Thanks in advance.

 

[pargent]

Best experts are on your other post

 

[wpnsman]

You have a 3 band P53 musket that has been cut down at some point in its life to replicate a 2 band P58 rifle.

Giveaways are the 900 yard musket rear sight as opposed to the 1100 yard rifle sight and lack of a bayonet lug on the right side of the barrel. It is also evident that the nose cap has been reattached to the shortened forearm and the front sight is not remotely close in appearance to an original.

A P58 should also have 5 groove rifling. I would suspect this is a 3 groove.

Not knocking your Enfield, it just is not an original P58 rifle. I would put an appropriate front sight on it, screw in new nipple and shoot it. So long as the breechplug and bore is sound.

 

[Fernando Keilty]

hi

Without being an expert in English arms, punches Birmingham test correspond to a V crowned crowned and PCBs. The number 25 indicates the number of round bales per pound. It is not a service weapon, because it lacks the arrow and crowned royal cypher, VR, in this case.

affectionately. Fernando K

 

[SWOwner]

You have a 3 band P53 musket that has been cut down at some point in its life to replicate a 2 band P58 rifle. Giveaways are the 900 yard musket rear sight as opposed to the 1100 yard rifle sight and lack of a bayonet lug on the right side of the barrel. It is also evident that the nose cap has been reattached to the shortened forearm and the front sight is not remotely close in appearance to an original.

Why would someone cut it down?

Not knocking your Enfield, it just is not an original P58 rifle.

No problem - it still reflects the past and looks great on the wall - if it could only talk! :wink:

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[SWOwner]

hi

Without being an expert in English arms, punches Birmingham test correspond to a V crowned crowned and PCBs. The number 25 indicates the number of round bales per pound. It is not a service weapon, because it lacks the arrow and crowned royal cypher, VR, in this case.

Thanks for the info.

 

[robinghewitt]

Looks very much like the 2 band I just fetched out of my gun safe but your nose cap has fallen off.

Proofs look very much the same, lock has a crown, 1859, TOWER and the double ordnance lines.

Shame about the barrel furniture, do you think it is a sawn off 3 band barrel? Have you counted the grooves? Not that I can remember how many this one has :idunno: :thumbsup:

 

[wpnsman]

These were cut down for various reasons,

Mostly, post war they were surplus and sold cheap as breech loader technology dominated the postwar era. Many were bored out to smoothbore, had the forends shortened and were sold as cheap shotguns.

Others were shortened to make handier hunting rifles. It could have happened at anytime during the last 150 years.

While it is known than Confederate Ordnance would recover damaged muskets and shorten them for reissue, you would be hard pressed to prove such an item as authentic without iron clad provenance establishing chain of ownership back to the civil war.

It has the normally encountered markings and proofs of Birmingham or London trade guns of the era that were imported in large numbers North and South. Yours having Birmingham proofs.

Like the vast majority of civil war era muskets it is no longer in its original state so, its collector value has been greatly diminished. Enjoy it for what it is.

 

[SWOwner]

...do you think it is a sawn off 3 band barrel?

If it was - they sure did a nice clean cut.

...Have you counted the grooves...

I am new at this - what am I actually checking for - I really don't know what to do to find out. Sorry.

 

[SWOwner]

These were cut down for various reasons...vast majority of civil war era muskets it is no longer in its original state so, its collector value has been greatly diminished. Enjoy it for what it is...

Thanks for the information!

 

[Zonie]

When someone asks if you've counted the grooves they are speaking of the rifling grooves inside the barrel.

Different guns often have a different number of rifling grooves machined into the bore and knowing how many can help determine exactly what the gun is/was.

 

[SWOwner]

When someone asks if you've counted the grooves they are speaking of the rifling grooves inside the barrel.

OK - Here is a picture. If a "grove" is what I have in red - their appears to be three.

Thanks Zonie!

 

[Alden]

That's indeed a groove! Nice it's still there at the muzzle, cut down or not...

 

[Tumblernotch]

hi

Without being an expert in English arms, punches Birmingham test correspond to a V crowned crowned and PCBs. The number 25 indicates the number of round bales per pound. It is not a service weapon, because it lacks the arrow and crowned royal cypher, VR, in this case.

affectionately. Fernando K

The lack of the Broad Arrow and VR makes it very likely to be an import to one of the combatants of the WBTS. The addition of the Anchor JS Mark on the small of the stock at the end of the guard bow plate would point to the Confederate side if it's there. Definitely a cut back P53/3 rifle-musket.