18th-century PRB?

[Capt. Jas.]

I like Stophel's response better :thumbsup:

All the answers are interesting and probably contain some truths, but I'm looking for instances where patches were actually mentioned. Or, if not by name, at least something which can reasonably let us conclude patches were used.

I have been on that search for a couple of years as well. To date, nothing. There are only a few who have the drive to.dig for.things like.this. will be keeping.an eye on the thread in hopes something pops up but as long as I have been searching.I am doubtful of anything solid.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I understand the desire for documentation but sometimes a thing is so obvious I think common sense supersedes documentation. Wrapping a bit of cloth or leather around a ball to prevent it rolling back out of the barrel is such an obvious thing a person would have to be a total idiot NOT to think of it. To assume that all of the millions of people around the world who shot smoothbores over 500 years were all idiots makes an idiot of those who would thus assume. :youcrazy:

Thats what I was trying to say :thumbsup:

Brits.

 

[dhobbs]

Guys,
I shoot an Jack Brooks "Carolina gun" also known as a type G. I have shot trade gun matches for years using patched RB but when I got this gun I wanted to use a load that was simuliar to historic loading practices. The following quote was posted on another forum by David Brown. I have used Spanish moss as in the quote and it works very well and is acurate. I have killed several deer with out using a patch and actually placed 2nd in a smoothbore match where everyone else was using PRB.

This is an great quote in reguard to Southeastern indian trade gun loads:


“I observed here a kind of Moss I had never seen before; it grows in great Quantities upon the large Trees, and hangs down 3 or 4 Yards from the Boughs; it gives a noble, ancient and hoary Look to the Woods; it is of a whitish green Colour, but when dried, is black like Horse-hair. This the Indians use for wadding their Guns, and making their Couches soft under the Skins of Beasts, which serve them for beds. They use it also for Tinder, striking Fire by flashing the Pans of their Guns into a handful of it, and for all other Uses where old Linnen would be necessary.”

Moore, Francis. A Voyage to Georgia, Begun in the Year 1735. London: Jacob Robinson, 1744.

What I like about this quote is:

1) Its southern!

2) first quarter 18th Cen

3) No conjecture to what the "moss" was used for........he spells it out....they use it to wad their guns.....hard to dispute that!

4) Also mentions it that is is used as a fire starter using the lock of their guns to make the spark......

Have a great day,
David

 

[tg]

"I understand the desire for documentation but sometimes a thing is so obvious I think common sense supersedes documentation. Wrapping a bit of cloth or leather around a ball to prevent it rolling back out of the barrel is such an obvious thing a person would have to be a total idiot NOT to think of it. To assume that all of the millions of people around the world who shot smoothbores over 500 years were all idiots makes an idiot of those who would thus assume.'


The point is however that in the world of historical science and reenactment tha proper documentation is the way the game is played, one may do what they please but need refrain from making claimes of something having to be fact because "they had to be smart enough" it just opens the Pandoras box of anything goes if it feels good mentality and totaly degrades the accepted scientific method of evidencerary procedure.I personally believe the PRB was at times used in smoothies but will not claim it as fact untill there is evidence of such.

 

[George]

Thanks, David, that's an interesting quotation, goes in my file. By implication he also seems to be saying they started fire using moss where linen would ordinarily be used. People looking for citations of the use of linen as char cloth might find that interesting. :grin:

Spence

 

[Stumpkiller]

Can we agree the fusil/fusee shooters used paper?

Rag paper, one of the old forms of paper, is made of cotton.

So, a paper cartridge made of rag paper IS a cloth patch . . . kind of.

 

[tg]

I am notconvinced that the early French Fusil de Chasse were all loaded with paper ball cartridges I suspect fiber or cloth wadding would be more likely these are much smaller bores than the military used,I would think the two wad method to be the norm, reday made paper cartridges with boxes are needed for batttle but not so much for hunting or random sniping,and the boxes for these guns and small cartridges are where?

 

[Britsmoothy]

I don't think he is implying old linen is just used for fire making as the terms used are "and all other uses where" etc.

B.

 

[tg]

"Where did the idea for using a patch around the ball for a rifle come from if not allready used in a smooth bore?"

I believe that originaly the ball was pushed down into the bore and it engaged the rifling to impart the twist the patch became a way of making the gun easier to load and eliminated the lead build up in the rifling.

One interesting note is that of many loaded smoothbores from mant areas none has been found with a patch that I have heard of, most everything imaginable was found as wadding from Beaver hair to Palmento leaves.

 

[nkbj]

Cheese and crackers :rotf:
Guys, if what you had was a piece of cloth or hide, prickly pear paddle or a rabbits ear then that's what you'd use.