- Joined
- May 6, 2014
- Messages
- 17,372
- Reaction score
- 16,263
The discussion of the American Flintlock Long Rifle’s accuracy was certainly notable in the 18th century and continues to be the “stuff of legends” today. I have been and continue to be an admirer of these fine rifles and the people who used them. However, I believe it is an injustice to continue legends and myths, rather than give an objective description of the kind of accuracy they were truly capable.
To be objective, I think it important we look at as many historic quotes/documentation as possible and question them. So in this thread, I hope to have an objective discussion from which we all may learn more. In this light, I will call this first post:
Part 1. EARLY REVOLUTIONARY WAR PROPAGANDA
1st Quote comes from the London Chronicle on August 17, 1775 ”“ “This province has raised 1,000 riflemen, the worst of whom will put a ball into a man’s head at the distance of 150 to 200 yards; therefore, advise your officers who shall hereafter come out to America to settle their affairs before their departure.”
2nd Quote comes from another London Newspaper in 1775 ”“ “The shirt-tail men, with their cursed twisted guns, the most fatal widow-and-orphan-makers in the world.”
Discussion: What is often missed with these quotes was they were, in fact, “Letters to the Editors” of these newspapers. The first quote seems to be attributed to a Philadelphia Printer by the name of Bedford. If he was in fact American Patriot William Bedford, then it is clear this quote was meant to shake the confidence of the British, if not outright scare some of them. I do not know for sure, but the estimate of 1,000 such Rifleman may or probably was also exaggerated?
However since the average human head size was/is a little over 5” wide and 8” tall; I can see how that was achievable at 150 yards from the prone or really good rest, but at 200 yards it seems more of “a stretch” (especially in a cross wind) though perhaps possible. There is a large ballistic/ball drop around 150 yards and much worse at 200 yards that they had to contend with. I don’t believe every one of them could have done it on the first shot, though, and certainly not “the worst of them,” as quoted above. I DO believe that unless there was some cross wind, and firing from the prone or very steady rest, that hitting a standing human torso (that was/is not moving) enough times at 200 yards with a flintlock long rifle was possible to be effective.
A .50 Cal. PRB leaving he muzzle at around 1900 fps and in a rifle sighted a little high at 110 yards, the drop at 200 yards is over 40 inches. So it would not be an easy shot, by any means.
I have not been able to find the author of the second quote, but I most strongly suspect it was also from a Patriot American attempting to undermine British Resolve/Morale. Of course, it is also possible the Author/s were trying to warn the British in an attempt to aid them, but also by exaggerating?
3rd Quote comes from Richard Henry Lee and claimed that six counties in western Virginia could provide 6000 riflemen with "their amazing hardihood, their method of living so long in the woods without carrying provisions with them, the exceeding quickness with which they can march to distant parts, and above all, their dexterity...in the use of the Rifle Gun...every shot is fatal." Lee went so far as to assert that these riflemen could hit an orange at 200 yards.
Discussion. I have not yet been able to find a date on the above quote or original source that may explain this quote better. I strongly suspect it was before he offered his famous Independence Resolution to the Second Continental Congress on June 7, 1776.
I looked it up and the Census Bureau estimates the total population of Virginia in 1770 to have been 447,016. That figure included slaves, but did not include the population of some of the lands claimed by Virginia, that were given up to make territories of other States later on.
Were there even 6,000 rifles in Virginia at that time, let alone that many militia men who were capable of going off for Soldiers? I don’t know, but that seems a large to very large exaggeration?
Now as far as the assertion that 6,000 riflemen could all hit an orange at 200 yards, that is at best “Patriotic Fever Exaggeration,” if not downright pure poppycock.
OK, Folks, just HAD to save “the best (or rather worst) propaganda for last.
4th Quote comes from a then recent Scottish Immigrant. Baika Harvey, to the region of Kettle Creek, Georgia. Unfortunately I do not have an exact date on this quote but it seems to have come from the very early part of the AWI. “I seed Eight Thousand men in arms all with Riffled Barrill guns which they can hit the Bigness of a Dollar between Two & Three hundred yards Distance”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦ the Little Boys not Bigger than myself has all their Guns & marches with their Fathers & all their Cry is Liberty or Death Dear Godfather tell all my Country people not to come here for the Americans will kill them Like Dear in the Woods & they will never see them they can lie on their Backs & Load & fire & every time they draws sight at anything they are sure to kill or Creple & they Run in the Woods like Horses I seed the Liberty Boys take Between Two & Three hundred Torreys & one Liberty man would take & Drive four or five before him Just as shepards do the sheep in our Cuntry & they have taken all their arms from them and put the head me n in gaile ”¦” 7]
7] Baika Harvey quoted in Robert Scott Davis, “Lesson from Kettle Creek: Patriotism and Loyalism on the Southern Frontier,” in Journal of Backcountry Studies. Volume 1, number 1, (March 2006): 2-3.
Discussion. I think this is a Pre-War or Early War quote by someone writing back home and trying to scare any Kinsman from coming here during the war. That number of rifles in Georgia at that period is just downright unbelievable and that sort of accuracy claim is full of Bovine Bowel Bulbs.
End of Part 1.
Gus
To be objective, I think it important we look at as many historic quotes/documentation as possible and question them. So in this thread, I hope to have an objective discussion from which we all may learn more. In this light, I will call this first post:
Part 1. EARLY REVOLUTIONARY WAR PROPAGANDA
1st Quote comes from the London Chronicle on August 17, 1775 ”“ “This province has raised 1,000 riflemen, the worst of whom will put a ball into a man’s head at the distance of 150 to 200 yards; therefore, advise your officers who shall hereafter come out to America to settle their affairs before their departure.”
2nd Quote comes from another London Newspaper in 1775 ”“ “The shirt-tail men, with their cursed twisted guns, the most fatal widow-and-orphan-makers in the world.”
Discussion: What is often missed with these quotes was they were, in fact, “Letters to the Editors” of these newspapers. The first quote seems to be attributed to a Philadelphia Printer by the name of Bedford. If he was in fact American Patriot William Bedford, then it is clear this quote was meant to shake the confidence of the British, if not outright scare some of them. I do not know for sure, but the estimate of 1,000 such Rifleman may or probably was also exaggerated?
However since the average human head size was/is a little over 5” wide and 8” tall; I can see how that was achievable at 150 yards from the prone or really good rest, but at 200 yards it seems more of “a stretch” (especially in a cross wind) though perhaps possible. There is a large ballistic/ball drop around 150 yards and much worse at 200 yards that they had to contend with. I don’t believe every one of them could have done it on the first shot, though, and certainly not “the worst of them,” as quoted above. I DO believe that unless there was some cross wind, and firing from the prone or very steady rest, that hitting a standing human torso (that was/is not moving) enough times at 200 yards with a flintlock long rifle was possible to be effective.
A .50 Cal. PRB leaving he muzzle at around 1900 fps and in a rifle sighted a little high at 110 yards, the drop at 200 yards is over 40 inches. So it would not be an easy shot, by any means.
I have not been able to find the author of the second quote, but I most strongly suspect it was also from a Patriot American attempting to undermine British Resolve/Morale. Of course, it is also possible the Author/s were trying to warn the British in an attempt to aid them, but also by exaggerating?
3rd Quote comes from Richard Henry Lee and claimed that six counties in western Virginia could provide 6000 riflemen with "their amazing hardihood, their method of living so long in the woods without carrying provisions with them, the exceeding quickness with which they can march to distant parts, and above all, their dexterity...in the use of the Rifle Gun...every shot is fatal." Lee went so far as to assert that these riflemen could hit an orange at 200 yards.
Discussion. I have not yet been able to find a date on the above quote or original source that may explain this quote better. I strongly suspect it was before he offered his famous Independence Resolution to the Second Continental Congress on June 7, 1776.
I looked it up and the Census Bureau estimates the total population of Virginia in 1770 to have been 447,016. That figure included slaves, but did not include the population of some of the lands claimed by Virginia, that were given up to make territories of other States later on.
Were there even 6,000 rifles in Virginia at that time, let alone that many militia men who were capable of going off for Soldiers? I don’t know, but that seems a large to very large exaggeration?
Now as far as the assertion that 6,000 riflemen could all hit an orange at 200 yards, that is at best “Patriotic Fever Exaggeration,” if not downright pure poppycock.
OK, Folks, just HAD to save “the best (or rather worst) propaganda for last.
4th Quote comes from a then recent Scottish Immigrant. Baika Harvey, to the region of Kettle Creek, Georgia. Unfortunately I do not have an exact date on this quote but it seems to have come from the very early part of the AWI. “I seed Eight Thousand men in arms all with Riffled Barrill guns which they can hit the Bigness of a Dollar between Two & Three hundred yards Distance”¦”¦”¦”¦”¦ the Little Boys not Bigger than myself has all their Guns & marches with their Fathers & all their Cry is Liberty or Death Dear Godfather tell all my Country people not to come here for the Americans will kill them Like Dear in the Woods & they will never see them they can lie on their Backs & Load & fire & every time they draws sight at anything they are sure to kill or Creple & they Run in the Woods like Horses I seed the Liberty Boys take Between Two & Three hundred Torreys & one Liberty man would take & Drive four or five before him Just as shepards do the sheep in our Cuntry & they have taken all their arms from them and put the head me n in gaile ”¦” 7]
7] Baika Harvey quoted in Robert Scott Davis, “Lesson from Kettle Creek: Patriotism and Loyalism on the Southern Frontier,” in Journal of Backcountry Studies. Volume 1, number 1, (March 2006): 2-3.
Discussion. I think this is a Pre-War or Early War quote by someone writing back home and trying to scare any Kinsman from coming here during the war. That number of rifles in Georgia at that period is just downright unbelievable and that sort of accuracy claim is full of Bovine Bowel Bulbs.
End of Part 1.
Gus
Last edited by a moderator: