18th century woodland native american dogs

[Carbon 6]

Fyi, I'm one of the few living direct descendants of the REAL Pocahontas,

A Personal Note: I'd sooner have the REAL Pocahontas as my ancestor than be a descendant of any dozen king/queens.

That's seems incredible, until one realizes that there are more than 100,000 descendants of Pocahontas today. That's like being related to every single person in San Angelo Texas.

Must be one hell of a family Reunion

 

[satx78247]

Hmm. I thought you said you were
Cherokee?

Actually, I for a VERY long time thought that we were Cherokee BUT it appears that the reason for that mistake was that my grandmother was born on the Cherokee Reservation in NC in 1887, attended/graduated from The Oklahoma Female Seminary for Cherokee Indian Girls, her college transcript says: Cherokee, her OK teaching credential says: Cherokee Female & all of the family PRESUMED that she was Cherokee.
(I don't recall my grandmother ever saying that she was Cherokee & in fact she tried to pass herself off as "white". - Being NA in her day was not something to "broadcast", as the KKK was VERY active in/hostile to A-I in OK. Further, a young widow alone, with 3 small children under 5YO, before WWI, was a "target of opportunity" for violence & perhaps death from the Klan.)

As some here KNOW, I'm now (since Mother's death) "the family historian" & it drove me "Nuts" trying to find our ancestors on the Dawes rolls.
(Darned good reason that I couldn't find her or any of her close kin, as looking among the Cherokees for NON-Cherokee relatives makes as little sense as looking in the rolls for Chinese people.)

"The break" came when my G-Great Aunt Lydia Mary passed away in Jay OK & my wife/I were called to go to Jay & "clean out her little house" before the 1BR house & her 42 acre farm was sold.
Among her "personal keepsakes" was a group of letters from another woman (whom I had never heard of) from the 1950s to 2004, who said among a lot of irrelevant family "chit-chat" that she wanted to write to "Nettie Mae", wanted her current address & the address of her adult children. = Olivia Janet (nee Parker) Clay turned out to be alive, completely lucid, a retired RN & living in an assisted living facility in NC. - I wrote to her, told her who my grandmother/father were, asked her a lot of questions & hoped that she might "write back".
She phoned us just before Thanksgiving & said that she still wanted to talk to "Nettie Mae". - I had the sad task of telling her that my grandmother & 2 of her 3 (Trull R. & my dad, Ernest H.) children had passed on & that I could give her my Aunt Willow's address & phone number in Gresham, OR.
Subsequent to that & other phone calls, she sent us a "laundry list" of all of our living kin that she remembered. = After that, I learned WHO my grandmother actually was, contacted those "unknown relatives" & contacted the tribal office in King William County, VA.

Personal note: No matter how good/bad that a person may be at research, sometimes "It's better to be lucky than good." - In this case, that was certainly true. = I got to "add" 42 individuals to our family tree & made friends with numerous "near kinfolk" & "kissing cousins".
I won't go into the UGLY "family rift", which isn't "a pretty story", that caused my G-grandmother (& bearing my unborn grandmother,) to abandon her family & move to a "dear friend" & boarding school chum's home in NC.
(I will not attempt to excuse my G-grandmother for her possible misbehavior and/or her part in the family fight, except to say that LEAVING may have been all that she knew to do at the time.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

And I thought he was Apache from the Texas area. Or was that an enemy of the Texas Apache?

Zonie,

When our family "trickled into Texas-Coahuila", starting with a young newlywed couple in 1822, the "newcomers", who were A-I, "allied with" the Apaches for protection from the hated Comanches.
(Fyi, my late wife, Vickie Kay C__________, was of Norman French & Lipan Apache blood. - "Vickie Kay" passed away in June 1983, just short of her 31st birthday of Acute Progranulocytic Leukemia.)

yours, satx

 

[satx78247]

That's seems incredible, until one realizes that there are more than 100,000 descendants of Pocahontas today. That's like being related to every single person in San Angelo Texas.

Must be one hell of a family Reunion

Carbon6,

Pocahontas passed away in London, England just before her 21st birthday of what was probably typhoid fever after bearing only 3 children.= She never lived to "go home" again after marriage.

There are a LARGE number of relatives of the numerous children (by other women) of her birth family living but FEW of those people are DIRECT descendants.= Woodland folk practiced polygamy well into the 20th Century & Deep Stream is said to have "sired children upon" at least 5 other women besides the children which he sired of Little Fawn.
(As a single example, William L. "Small Bear" Thomas, an Indian scout for 14th TX Cavalry during TWBTS, had at least 44 children by 8 different women & at his funeral in April 1924 in Panola County TX, at least 545 DIRECT DESCENDANTS attended his funeral & signed their name & relationship in his "funeral book".)

yours, satx

 

[Carbon 6]

Well, that's all very interesting, but now it's time for the million dollar question.

What does any of that have to do with native american dogs?

 

[satx78247]

Well, that's all very interesting, but now it's time for the million dollar question.

What does any of that have to do with native american dogs?

Carbon6; All,

Inasmuch as I was responding to your overly intrusive personal questions about my "somewhat odd" extended family, WHY do you believe that you NOW get to complain about the answers being "off topic" & not having anything to do with A-I dogs??

IF you don't want to hear the explanation, DON'T ASK such personal questions & then gripe/carp/complain when a member bothers to answer your query, with an answer that you don't like or want to hear. = You can't have it both ways, imo.

I think that you owe everyone on this thread an explanation of your behavior & perhaps should give everyone an apology.

just my opinion, satx

 

[tenngun]

If your from English descent there is about an 80% chance you descended from Alfred the Great.
Pocahontas children were 1/2, grandchildren 1/4, great1/8, then 1/16, a century by at this point. By the second century Pocahontas disappears.
My experience with dogs however are they are all Nobel,each a Caesar

 

[Zonie]

Speaking of dogs, yes. Let's let the "personal issues dog" waddle over into the corner, turn around 3 times, lay down and go to sleep while we get back to the original subject of this topic. In other words, let's let the sleeping dog lie.

 

[Carbon 6]

My experience with dogs however are they are all Nobel,each a Caesar

Yes indeed, Dogs possess an intelligence and character that is lacking in many men, Nobel they are indeed, and selfless.

 

[satx78247]

To All,

By chance, I heard today that a local hog-hunter has just had his LA leopard ***** bred by an about 80# stud-dog that is locally well-known as very "game" & a "holy terror in a fight with wild hogs".

IF you happen to have a real NEED for a pup, that will likely grow into a tough/smart/fast/very tenacious hunting dog & watchdog, you may want to ask pretty soon.
(I was told that she had 4 ******* & 3 dogs in her last litter.)

Otoh, IF you have NO need of and/or you've not handled such canines, best let someone else have the pups. = An adult LA Leopard is anything but a lapdog!!

yours, satx

 

[bud in pa]

I've had a few Mtn. Curs. They are some of the smartest dogs that I ever had. They were actually Mountain view Curs. They were bred for small game. The first one was a female, a Christmas gift from my wife. she turned out to be my wife's dog, except when I took out my gun to go hunting. from the very first time I took out my gun to see if she was gun shy, she would go nuts. Easiest dog to train. These were the dogs most used by the frontiers men, according to what I have read. supposedly they were the mingling of the Conquistadors dogs and Native merican dogs.

 

[THBailey]

Yes indeed, Dogs possess an intelligence and character that is lacking in many men, Nobel they are indeed, and selfless.

Indeed. I wish I was half the man my dog thinks I am!

 

[satx78247]

To All,

Fwiw, I heard at lunch today that the owner of the LA Leopard ***** has accepted deposits from 12 people for a pup as of Saturday, IF there are that many born. = So if you needed/wanted a Leopard pup, you are out of luck.

Her largest litter(3 years ago) was 9 pups, so likely some folks are going to be disappointed & will get their checks/deposits back.

yours, satx

 

[Carbon 6]

Wouldn't it be funny if the dog in the movie "Dances With Wolves" was really just some native american's pet ?
Make me rethink the whole plot of the movie.

 

[Jhightow]

It may have been discussed already, but I must have missed it. Being originally from Aiken, South Carolina, I actually happened to grow up not thirty miles form where Carolina dogs were discovered to be their own species. Unfortunately, I didn't even know such a thing existed at that time and since moved away. Now, there are several breeders trying to keep the species alive and pure because Carolina dogs are the closest example of canis familiaris or "dog" as one can get. They are the only North American species that has no in-breeding from European species. The breeders operate out of Aiken, SC, New Ellenton, SC, and Bishopville, SC that I know of. And having hunted both the Savannah and Wateree basins, I have run across the sign left by them but never seen them. They tend to keep to themselves and avoid people if possible. Really cool dogs and if pure-bred, they have nearly no hereditary diseases.
Pretty cool

 

[Jhightow]

It may have been discussed already, but I must have missed it. Being originally from Aiken, South Carolina, I actually happened to grow up not thirty miles form where Carolina dogs were discovered to be their own species. Unfortunately, I didn't even know such a thing existed at that time and since moved away. Now, there are several breeders trying to keep the species alive and pure because Carolina dogs are the closest example of canis familiaris or "dog" as one can get. They are the only North American species that has no in-breeding from European species. The breeders operate out of Aiken, SC, New Ellenton, SC, and Bishopville, SC that I know of. And having hunted both the Savannah and Wateree basins, I have run across the sign left by them but never seen them. They tend to keep to themselves and avoid people if possible. Really cool dogs and if pure-bred, they have nearly no hereditary diseases.
Pretty cool

And now I see that this thread is super old....Whoops

 

[Jim Wag]

You may be looking for a
Hunting dog
Like this
One

She's a
Sunnyslope Survivor

Jim in La Luz

 

[Treestalker]

You may be looking for a
Hunting dog
Like this
One
View attachment 108586
She's a
Sunnyslope Survivor

Jim in La Luz

Chupacabra cabron.

 

[flntlokr]

Flntokr, could you point me to some artists, right now I only really know about Rocky mountain fur trade artists such as A J Miller. Thanks
NWT Woodsman

Paul Kane for one' I have seen some others as well. Your local librarian could probably help you more.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

The Carolina Dog is part of the Sight Hound group.
Carolina Dog

LD