2 Band Enfield Smoothbore

[jj-22]

Hello,
Yes, it is an Indian import but not one of the newer ones. I picked this up from a guy at work who found it at a yard sale and bought it for $15.
Google was no help and I couldn't find anything here about this particular import.
The nipple is missing but my brother took a look at it and said the threads didn't look too bad. He said we could always tap it out and go up a size.
Overall it looks pretty good for what it is. Some surface rust (patina right :wink: ) and a little rust in the barrel. Actually there's more dust in the bore than rust. It looks like it's been sitting for 25 years.

In the first picture you can see it has a block rear sight. Inside the diamond across the top is the number 16. Next to that is .637" Looks like proofs with recommended load if it's to be believed. Has a date or a code of 1971.
Also has a beat up repro 1907 sling on it and the ramrod has a loop or rawhide tied through so I'm assuming that the previous owner hunted with it and didn't reenact.
The local game warden said that when primitive season was first instituted here, only smoothbores were allowed.

The second pic has the manufacture's info. It's all in one line with no spaces but google shows a company called S Insaf Ali And Son located in Jodhpur India and nothing else.

Anyone have the dope on these early imports?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[Carteret Kid]

They were made in India for the Bitish Indian Army in rifled .577 and later reamed out to be shotguns. They were the same patterns as was Enfields imported from Britain in the our Civil War, but Indian made guns were not imported in that war.
Get it checked out before shooting because you dont know what happened to it during its long history.

 

[Shine]

1970s and 80s.

 

[hounddog]

on the top of the bbl 75 means to use 75 grains of powder, 1 oz means to use 1 ounce of shot, 635 means it is bored out to a .635 dia appa 20 ga. I have a more recent enfield 3 band smoothbore myself in 20 ga (62 cal). get you a nipple with good threads and good treads in the breech (nipple threads) and follow the instruction given and shoot it. you got a real good deal hounddog

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

As Shine said, it dates to the 1970's or 1980s. Have it checked by a knowledgeable black powder gunsmith and go shoot it. Unlike the currently imported Indian "imitation guns", this one was, by Indian law, intended to be fired. It should be just fine since it bears legal Indian government proof markings indicating that it has passed proof standards adhering to standard of those used by the English proof house at Birmingham.

The nipple should be a standard 5/16-18 sized nipple for musket caps as used in the original British muskets and modern Italian and British reproductions of the P53 family of rifle muskets, rifles and carbines. (Be careful not to try to use a US musket standard nipple which has a 5/16 X 24 thread.) It will be commonly available at all muzzleloading suppliers for around $4, check with your local supplier or order from a catalog. If it screws down tight and isn't loose, you are fine, hopefully you will not need to re-tap the hole because if you do you will then need a custom made replacement.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Oh, and for heaven's sake, get rid of that sling......

 

[Shine]

Actually if that sling is a real m1907 military one with brass fittings. Its worth more than you paid for the gun. :grin:

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

It looks like a repop but, if you are right Shine, it belongs elsewhere.

 

[jj-22]

Thanks for all the info that you guys have provided. I knew someone here would know something about this rifle. I was really surprised that there isn't much out there on these older imports.

After I get it cleaned up and a new nipple on (thanks Va.Manuf.06), I'll get it out with my brother and she how she shoots. If it'll hold minute of deer at 50 yards, I'll take it out next deer season.

So what's wrong with the sling? I think it looks OK on it :wink: Seriously, It will come off. I still haven't even pulled the rifle apart yet. The sling is a repro. The tip off is the staple in the keeper in my first pic. If it was real, it would have been on one my Garands or 03A3s already!

Thanks again everyone!

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

As far as the sling, if you only want it to carry the gun, there is nothing at all wrong with it. Sometimes those of us that want HC (historical correctness) get a little overbearing about things like that and I apologize. You do not have or want a historically accurate North American military arm, you are looking for a hunting or pleasure arm and the sling is fine for that and will do very well. Use it in good health. :thumbsup:

 

[Morgan Schuler]

I just got a double barrel just like yours and don't know much about it or what they are worth. Did you ever find a whole lot out about that? I have to find a piece for the left side of it that holds the hammer back and releases it when you pull the trigger. I keep finding them for the right side but I guess the left side is a rare one. I also have to get a ramrod but that will probably be pretty easy to find, just not a genuine one for this gun. I think I'll take it to a gun shop so they can show me what I need to have to shoot it.

 

[TS12]

This is an old thread but...

The OP's example is very similar to one I have; also Indian and manufactured about the same time (second from right in the picture). Mine is curious. It is in .733, which matches the Pattern 1841 Sappers carbine. The barrel length is also correct for the P1841. However the stock and trigger guard are mid 1850s Enfield/Lancaster rifle in design. So unless anyone knows differently, this could only be a period correct repro if a newer stock was matched to an older barrel. I believe the smooth bores in India after the Mutiny were just smooth bore versions of Enfields in .577.

I have an original Sappers bayonet which would be a perfect fit but for the foresight on the musket being a whisker too high. Rather than modify either I am thinking of getting one of the IMA repro sappers bayonets and modifying that if I need to. I'd like to replace the stock with a more correct repro of the P1841 stock as and when I get around to it.


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