2 Band Enfield Troubles

[oneshooter]

I have started casting for and shooting my Euroarms Two Band Enfield and have found several problems.

#1 The 525gr Minies are too large. My barrel mikes at .571 land to land. My bullets mike at .575-.577. They are a little difficult to load! I have been trying to find, witout any luck so far, a swedge, or sizer, to push these through. They need to be .570 min., .565 would be better. I could paper patch them as per the origionals.

#2 The barrel channel at the breech is to deep. The barrel was bearing on the lockplate with the tang screw tightened. This is being repaired now, by glueing a small piece of maple wood to the breech area and re-inletting.The tang was also inletted too deep and will be repaired tha same way.

#3 The barrell is a little rough. I plan to lap the barrel to smooth it.

#4 The trigger STINKS!!!! Creepy, tough pull, and a MILE of overtravel!!! This will be fixed by carefull stoning, some metal added to the trigger bar, and refitted.


What I NEED is a bullet swedge!! Any suggestions would be incredably appreciated, as I have spent the last 3 hours on the net searching!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[jeepwj992002]

You could try Lee Custom services They can custom make sizing dies to the size you need. Hope this helps.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Contact Tom at Southwest Sutler [email protected] or just do a site search for Southwest Sutler and order whatever dies you need. The locking nut, die and push rod are all part of the embarrassingly low die price. All you need is the Lee press and some minies to get started.

Tom is a great person to talk with, especially if you speak Welsh. He knows his stuff and can answer any question you may have. I'm a very satisfied customer and can't say enough good things about the man. He's located in Texas too, so it should be easy enough for you to get what you need.

All that said, I've never encountered a Euroarms 1858 Enfield that wasn't at least .577 bore diameter. I've known some to mike slightly larger, but never undersized. Silly question, but are you sure it's an Enfield? The reason I ask is I knew someone who told me they were bringing a 2 band Enfield to a match, and they showed up with a Mississippi rifle. When I asked them about the Enfield, they looked incredulous and told me "This Is IT!" They also had difficulty loading a .575 diameter bullet since the gun was .54 caliber.

 

[bub524]

I had a friend make one for me but I think as in the previuous post you can buy one without too much expense.
Here is a site that discusses the proper way to do a trigger job on a musket and it is acceptable to the N-SSA reveiw committee. There are other associated pages on the same site with loads of info on muskets in particular if you are interested in them specifically. The N-SSA has a board for CW specific firearms questions. Those guys aren't as well rounded as what you have here for sure, but they do know more about muskets then anyplace I've been.
[url] http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-locks.shtml[/url]

Enjoy the Enfield, I have several and they are all diffrent and finicky and fun.

 

[arquebus]

Actually, assuming your measurements are correct, a .565" diameter bullet/die would be too small. Ideally you only want to be .001" - .002" under BORE size. Like Iron Jim, I've never seen a Enfield with a bore that small.....seems a bit odd. My Euroarms Enfield Musketoon takes a .577" minie whereas my Zouave requires a .581", & my M.1858 Amberg a .550".
Another useful site you might find of interest is this one http://www.researchpress.co.uk/targets/musketry/enfieldmanagement.htm
It is geared towards the Enfield muskets, but alot of the information applies to other rifle=muskets, too.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Jeez, Bub most of us in the N-SSA are very well rounded. I always thought that was because I drank too much ice tea between relays, but my wife's cooking may be a contributing factor.

If you're suggesting we don't know as much about muzzleloading in general, I would disagree emphatically. Many of us came to the N-SSA in pursuit of competition that simply can't be approached in any other muzzleloading shooting discipline. Over 4,000 shooters attend the National Skirmishes (timed shooting matches) in Winchester twice a year. Many regions will have a dozen two day skirmishes (matches) in the course of the season. I'm unaware of any regional roundball matches that attract thousands of shooters and are held every other weekend from May to October.

The N-SSA membership comprises some of the most experienced shooters in muzzleloading. Despite the fact that we only shoot civil war arms in competition, I haven't met a member that isn't familar with all other types of muzzleloading or who doesn't own and use roundball rifles. Many of the members are also active flint shooters, thus in an overall survey of muzzleloading knowledge I would say the membership of the N-SSA ranks amongst the most experienced.

 

[bub524]

Sorry I didn't mean to imply that individuals don't know as much.
I was suggesting that the info on the N-SSA site was pretty specific as to a certain period, whereas, here there is everything from soup to nuts. No pun intended.

 

[jdstrang]

Dittos on the never-heard-of-such-a-small-caliber-Enfield posts, but if you are looking for a simple, push-through sizer, any number of N-SSA-related sutlers carry them. You might try Miami Valley Sutler, ( [email protected] ) for openers. They run somewhere about $12 or so. Tell 'em what you want, and if they can't supply it, they'll tell you where to find it.

 

[oneshooter]

Rechecked the bore size on my Two Band. Used a .570 steel rod 1/2 length of barrel and dropped a near bore sized ball on it, then took another steel rod and a 2lb hammer and,................. IT WORKED. New bore size is .578 L/L. Minies as cast are .58205. Will use a sizer of .576 to insure consistent size and roundness.

Barrel channel is finished, will seal it with beeswax tomorrow. Al that is left is the lock. May wait till Saturday to work on it as I will have most of the day available. :grin:

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

I would suggest glass bedding the barrel full length.Follow the instructions for applying the release agent explicitly, and you should have perfect results. The last skirmish I attended I shot a 47 offhand at 50 yards with a 30 year old glass bedded Parker Hale musketoon. If you do your part, these guns will deliver outstanding accuracy.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Beeswax is simply going to melt in the heat you have in Texas. Glass bed the barrel channel, and you won't regret it. Jim is right.

 

[oneshooter]

The beeswax is to simply seal the wood to help prevent warping, as there was no sealer on it from the factory.

Would a musket with full lenght bedding be NSSA comliant?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[jdstrang]

Would a musket with full length bedding be N-SSA compliant?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

Yep. Many N-SSA competitors glass bed their firearms. The main debate is whether. for accuracy's sake, it should be done full-length, or just to the rear band. I've gone both ways...

 

[oneshooter]

Papa Bear, I've filled and reinletted the tang and the first 6" of the barrel channel. This includes removing the bearing point at the breech and adding walnut wood shims 3/8" thick and reinletting to a full bearing of the breech to the wood. Do you believe that additional fill is needed? I have yet to test fire the rifle after these changes. Was planning to rework the lock Saturday but work, and life, changed those plans!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

I'd recommend losing the shims, and glass bedding the barrel the full length of the channel. I back off bedding 2" from the spoon and bands, as this will allow a very stable barrel channel, and should deliver consistent accuracy. Band tension is important, and I generally get best results with the bands firm enough to keep the barel down, but not overly tight. The nice thing about bedding the barrel channel is that the bands wont walk on you.

Be certain to apply the release agent as per directions to all metal surfaces. Coat the edges and inside of the barrel band with 3 coats of release agent. Likewise coat the lock plate edges and interior plate. Avoid coating the springs with release agent, but make sure you apply it any area where the glass bedding will contact metal. Coat the lock screws and especially the tang screw. Tape the stock flats where they run parallel to the barrel, and you should obtain good results. If you don't follow th directions explictly, and manage to bond the barrel to the wood, I'd suggest getting the musket nice and cold, inserting a dowel the length of the bore, and prying the barrel out GENTLY.

 

[oneshooter]

As to "losing the shims" they are fitted and glued in place, so they won't"get lost". I can,and will take into consideration bedding the barrel. It will depend on how the rifle shoots! If I do decide to full bed does it extend to the muzzle? Or just to the first band?

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

I would bed from the tang to 2" behind the spoon. I would bed the area two inches ahead of the rear band to 2" behind the front band, and to within 2" of the nosecap. The only reason I back off the bands and the nosecap is to prevent bonding the barrel to the stock, bonding the spoon in place, and preventing access to the nosecap screw. I find the this makes the bedding process easier but still gives you the benefit of a fully bedded barrel.

Generally the inletting on Italian production guns is awful, and the glass bedding is essential to accuracy. David Minishall on this forum has a "recipe" for barrel bedding using traditional materials if you prefer. Personally I like glass bedding because N-SSA rules permit it (International rules don't) and the results are outstanding. I don't know anyone that shoots consistently above a 45 offhand who doesn't glass bed. Properly done, the process is so inconspicuous as to be invisible.

 

[ResearchPress]

David Minishall on this forum has a "recipe" for barrel bedding using traditional materials if you prefer.

You will find the information in the article on Managing the Enfield on my web site. See the section headed 'Bedding'.

David

 

[Brian the Brit]

Your first port of call should be Bill Curtis' comprehensive series of articles on 'Managing the Enfield' as per David's link above. It really got me started with my Euroarms 2-band when I first took up muzzle-loading a few years ago.

Parker-Hale found that the 2-band rifle with its faster twist preferred a heavier bullet than the 3-band and produced a special mould that cast a Minié with a much shallower base cavity than normal.

Lyman manufacture the same mould (#575213PH) or you could do as I did and buy a much cheaper Lee mould (575-500M 90481)and simply cut down the base plug to give the same result.

Incidentally, a mate of mine was having awful problems with his Zouave with shop-bought bullets. He tried the Lee Improved Minié, traditional design 58cal oversize (.578-478M 90478) and now shoots single-hole groups at 50 metres off the bench.

Hope this helps,

Brian