2-banders vs. musketoons/carbines

[Zip]

Been trying to decide on which one really fits my needs. Have always bought guns for hunting, but the older I get the steeper the hills grow. On the other hand, the shooting range is still flat.

When it comes to the Civil War military guns, how much performance difference is there between the 33" 2-band rifles and 24" carbines say out to 200-300 yds. (available at my local range)? In the woods and mountains what's the practicality difference between the two sizes? Or, for all intents and purposes, is there none? What would you buy?

 

[phoenix511]

My Lyman's "Black Powder Handbook," copyright 1975, shows the 24" musket bbl w/Lyman 575213OS and 70 grs 2Fg, MV 838 fps w/ G-O (Goex?) powder.

For the 32" bbl with same bullet & load, MV 842 fps. So it looks to me like there is little velocity gain with the longer barrel, just more weight to carry around.

IF you're going to hunt with a Minie, keep in mind the rainbow trajectory, so sharpen you range estimating skills. According to the Lyman book, with the above load sighted at 50 yards, at 100 yards you'll be 5" low and at 200 yards, 18" low. A wind of 5 mph from 3 or 9 o'clock will move the point of impact 1" ... so nothing to worry about, but at 15 mph and 200 yards, it moves the bullet over 12".

 

[Zip]

Thanks Wet Willie, that was interesting. Sounds like a difference without distinction,or at least much of one. :wink:

 

[Poor Private]

Now to toss more wood in the fire. Have you taken a look at the so called "Zouve" rifles? They are actually a hybrid of the Mississippi rifle. The originals were manufactured by Remington during the civil war but never issued. They were called the 1863 Remington Contract Rifle. There are several different repops out there. A favorite uncle who decided he couldn't do the hiking anymore gave me his. He took several deer with it, and he said it's accurate out to 2-300 yards. You can usually pick one of these up at a gun show for around 250 bucks. Now you have another choice to look at.

 

[jan buck]

i'm a cw skirmisher and shoot these guns. but not at 2-300 yards. drop would be substantial. of course you have the option of the elevated rear sight.we shoot off hand, from a bench with lots of practice shots could be made that far. i personally would not shoot at an animal that far away. my skirmish group hunt with nothing but .58 cal cw rifle and smoothie muskets.

 

[Zip]

No, I wouldn't be shooting that far at an animal. But my local range has a 300-yd. section open to the public and a silhouette (500 m.) range open to members. I am curious as to what these guns can do at more than 100 yds.

I have seen a few used Zoli Zouaves for sale and I'm told these older ones are the ones to look for. I am leaning towards an Enfield carbine but haven't found many real P-H ones out there. The P-H repros I've seen were made by EuroArms, which I understand has been bought by Pedersoli. It is reported that these repros, however, have the Parker Hale barrels, which is a good thing I'm told. If it is too difficult to find a real P-H Enfield, I am open to other makes. Do you all have any pics of your guns?

 

[varsity07840]

I occasionally hunt with an original 1842 .69 cal. that was cut down to 26'', similar to a CSA Macon conversion. I had it relined and rifled with the long range type rear sight. It's one of the handiest woods guns I have. I have it sighted in at 50 yards which is my limit with 61 year old eyes with open sights. Regardless of barrel length, with 80 gr of 2F and a 500 gr. minie or patched ball, I am not undergunned for whitetail and particularly with the minie, it's a tack driver. Standard length 2 banders like the Zouave or Mississippi certainly would fit the bill. I do agree with the gentleman regarding long range shots when hunting. These muskets had the ability to hit man at long range with elevated sights but taking a man out of the fight and hitting a deer in the vitals and putting it down quickly are not the same. I'd stay within 100 yards.

Duane

 

[Zip]

Agreed Duane. Good points. I got 61 year old eyes as well and know of what you speak. Your gun sounds interesting and I'm glad to hear how handy it is in the hunting woods. I don't know how to post pics, so I probably shouldn't be asking others to do what I can't....but if you got one I won't bear no grudges.

 

[jan buck]

zip:
the guy i bought the ph enfields from shot something like 24 deer with a two bander. he related one story where he hit the deer high and it ran off and bedded down. he trailed it aways and shot for the neck but hit just above the tail, sending the minie lenght ways through her. bullet came out the front of the deer. muzzle velocity was about 650 fps. a 560 gr minie can plow through some stuff.

 

[BillinOregon]

Duane, I'd love to see a photo of your cut-down M42. Is it still .69? Did Bobby Hoyt do the reline?

 

[poordevil]

The Zouve is a Rifle made by Remington on the model of the 1855 Rifle, without the Maynard tape primer. The Mississippi is the 1841 Rifle made to use the round ball. Very different guns. What makes them Rifles as opposed as Muskets
(or Rifle-Muskets) is the 33" BBL.

Euroarms makes or made a carbine called the Murry. A copy of a Confederate carbine with a 22" BBL and having the long brass nose cap of the Mississippi and a very nice looking gun IMO. It uses the minnie ball or round ball, is .58cal and at black powder hunting ranges would be just the ticket. If or when I ever buy another military style gun, that will be the one I get.

P

 

[varsity07840]

Duane, I'd love to see a photo of your cut-down M42. Is it still .69? Did Bobby Hoyt do the reline?

Bill:

Yes it is still .69 and Bobby did the work. He has done a number of 3 bands, 2 bands and carbines for me and all have shot very well. The '42 is all original except for the rear sight. According to the N-SSA the front band on a Macon can be fastened with a band spring or a screw through the band spring hole.I used the screw method because it keeps the band and front sight in a fixed position. I have a full length original rifled
42 that Bobby also did for me
and keeping the front band from moving was a problem until I
used shims to keep it tight. I'm not very good at posting on this site but if you send me a PM with your email I'll send you some. If you can post them here after you get them, all the better since another gentleman on this thread wanted to see some too. BTW, I use the Rapine semi wadcutter in both '42s and they shoot great!

Duane

 

[Zip]

Hehehe, we just love volunteers. Don't let us down Bill, we're countin' on ya. :grin: