200yd holdover?

[Shine]

Do you guys just shoot for fun.im not saying hunt at that range.

 

[Dean2]

"These 200 and 400 yard questions come up here but, IMHO, should go into the dumper.
Exception, range shooting as you mentioned. But, never ever, ever never for hunting.
"

Amen to that, brother. :thumbsup:

BP I usuaully find your comments well considered and far from zealotish but this forums fasination that hunting things with a muzzle loader at ranges over 100 yards is not just wrong it is evil incarnate fascinates me.

Open sights are more than capable of accurately placing shots on target at very long ranges. We used to shoot Bisley 100 to 1000 yeards with 303 Lee Enfields with open sights. (They now use 7.62 Nato with Peep sights.) The bull at 1000 yards is 24", a man across the chest is about 18", and the V Bull is 16". Winners at the Bisly shoot regularly put more than 10 of their 15 shots in the V ring and all in the Bull. British and Canadian snipers in WW1 and WW2 regualrly shot men at 1000 to 1200 yards with 303s and open sights.

The 303 drops almost 500" at 1000 yards so shooting a ML accurtely to 200 or 300 yards does not defy logic. Not everyone can shoot 1000 yards with open sights, it takes a lot of practice and some talent, plus good eye sight, but presuming you have the talent and spend the time, shooting a ML, properly rested and with the right sights, accurately to 300 yards is no where near a big strecth let alone WRONG, IMMORAL, BAD etc as it is so often characterised on here.

If a person is willing to put in the time, has the ability to accurately range the distance, and a sight that can be adjusted for that distance then making accurate hits on deer size game is perfectly doable, and the round ball has lots of power to kill at that range.

The distance at which you can put 5 out of 5 shots into an rectangle 10" tall by 5" wide is your effective ethical hunting distnace. For some people that is 50 yards, for others that will be MUCH farther.

 

[Shine]

Shooting a man at that range and shooting a deer at that range are two different things. Id be very upset if I wounded a deer.

 

[azmntman]

10"x5" for a man maybe...I'd say 6-8" circle for deer. Too much room to err and wound bambi for me. Creep closer or hunt centerfire IMHO

 

[Toomuch51]

"These 200 and 400 yard questions come up here but, IMHO, should go into the dumper.
Exception, range shooting as you mentioned. But, never ever, ever never for hunting.
"

Amen to that, brother. :thumbsup:

BP I usuaully find your comments well considered and far from zealotish but this forums fasination that hunting things with a muzzle loader at ranges over 100 yards is not just wrong it is evil incarnate fascinates me.

Open sights are more than capable of accurately placing shots on target at very long ranges. We used to shoot Bisley 100 to 1000 yeards with 303 Lee Enfields with open sights. (They now use 7.62 Nato with Peep sights.) The bull at 1000 yards is 24", a man across the chest is about 18", and the V Bull is 16". Winners at the Bisly shoot regularly put more than 10 of their 15 shots in the V ring and all in the Bull. British and Canadian snipers in WW1 and WW2 regualrly shot men at 1000 to 1200 yards with 303s and open sights.

The 303 drops almost 500" at 1000 yards so shooting a ML accurtely to 200 or 300 yards does not defy logic. Not everyone can shoot 1000 yards with open sights, it takes a lot of practice and some talent, plus good eye sight, but presuming you have the talent and spend the time, shooting a ML, properly rested and with the right sights, accurately to 300 yards is no where near a big strecth let alone WRONG, IMMORAL, BAD etc as it is so often characterised on here.

If a person is willing to put in the time, has the ability to accurately range the distance, and a sight that can be adjusted for that distance then making accurate hits on deer size game is perfectly doable, and the round ball has lots of power to kill at that range.

The distance at which you can put 5 out of 5 shots into an rectangle 10" tall by 5" wide is your effective ethical hunting distnace. For some people that is 50 yards, for others that will be MUCH farther.

All of your points on shot placement are well taken and valid. But the fact still remains that beyond 200yd. the point is no longer hunting but merely target practice and only serves to bolster one's ego.

Toomuch
............
Shoot Flint

 

[azmntman]

when I was young n dumb(er) I shot a bull elk at 180 yds off a small pine tree. Last day at darkthirty. Aimed 4 feet over him. LUCKY yes, do it again NO. Gun was sighted n a 75 yds with maxi type conical. Good hit and ran thrity yards but could have easily wounded a monarch of the woods!

I wont shoot must past 100 now no matter what! To each his own per his own ethical compass.

 

[biliff]

If a person is willing to put in the time, has the ability to accurately range the distance, and a sight that can be adjusted for that distance then making accurate hits on deer size game is perfectly doable, and the round ball has lots of power to kill at that range.

And judge the wind accurately.

 

[Dean2]

quote]

All of your points on shot placement are well taken and valid. But the fact still remains that beyond 200yd. the point is no longer hunting but merely target practice and only serves to bolster one's ego.

Toomuch
............
Shoot Flint
[/quote]


Come hunt antelope, or whitetails for that matter, with me on the bald Prairie where you aren't allowed to shoot within 500 yards of a water hole, no baiting is allowed and there isn't a tree or bush for at least 15 miles in any direction. On top of that, there are darn few days where the wind isn't doing 30 mph or more.

For a lot of you Eastern guys, seeing game over 50 or 75 yards almost never happens, and many of you hunt on 20 to 160 acre parcels. For some of us that hunt the West, we hunt over thousands of acres to locate game and seeing something less than 400 yards away is a heck of a treat.

A few days hunting out here, we'll see if you still think shooting more than 200 yards is just target practice. :grin:

 

[Shine]

Have you killed anything at 200 yds or more with a traditional muzzleloader and patched roundball?
That's what this forum is about not what you can do with a longbranch.

 

[Zonie]

I disagree.

This forum is not about just hunting any more than it is just about target shooting.

We have people who never target shoot and we have people who have never hunted.

I wouldn't be surprised to find we even have some people who do nothing but re-enacting and don't shoot anything at all.

There all welcome here and they all have a right to make a topic about anything that's not forbidden by the Forum Rules.

 

[Shine]

Zonie a longbranch is a Canadian made .303 british. See above post. Im all for every use of a traditional muzzloader. except trying to kill an animal at over 200 yds with one. Read this whole thread and don't accuse me poo pooing what people can post about as long as it in the guidelines. Im sure shooting a ww2 rifle isn't in in them.

 

[Wes/Tex]

My comment is the same as when this was hashed and rehashed before. Long shots with a muzzleloader involve a lot of experience and math. Ball or bullet drop will be in yards and wind drift may be in feet. Unless you're one heck of a good guesser at trajectory and distance, it's too chancy for hits on game. Can it be done? Sure! Should it be done? Probably not!

 

[azmntman]

 

[Zonie]

My apologies. Had you said "with a modern rifle" I think I would have seen your comment differently.

As for 400 yard hunting out west, IMO the person should be shooting elongated bullets that can carry the needed distance for a clean quick kill if the shot is going to be over 130 yards.

They should also limit the distance for their shots to ones that can be accurately made without making a wounded animal.

If this isn't possible for them, perhaps it's best for them to forget about muzzleloading.

On a not so negative note the pronghorn antelope is typical of the Western game animals and we have them here in Arizona.
They are almost always found out on grassy plains without a tree in sight.

They are spooky critters with eyes about as good as a eagles.

Yes, they are curious about strange things but flagging them into range isn't commonly done.

I notice there is not only a Bow season for them but there is a organization of Bow Hunters that specialize in hunting them.

IMO, any critter that can be hunted with a bow sure can be hunted successfully with a muzzleloader without taking 130+ yard shots.

 

[Dean2]

Have you killed anything at 200 yds or more with a traditional muzzleloader and patched roundball?
That's what this forum is about not what you can do with a longbranch.

Yes I have. I have also missed one clean at over 200 yards because I misjudged the wind, just as I have missed some with a CF for the same reason. I have never failed to recover an animal I shot over 200 yards with a ML.

 

[Dean2]

My apologies. Had you said "with a modern rifle" I think I would have seen your comment differently.

As for 400 yard hunting out west, IMO the person should be shooting elongated bullets that can carry the needed distance for a clean quick kill if the shot is going to be over 130 yards.

They should also limit the distance for their shots to ones that can be accurately made without making a wounded animal.

If this isn't possible for them, perhaps it's best for them to forget about muzzleloading.

On a not so negative note the pronghorn antelope is typical of the Western game animals and we have them here in Arizona.
They are almost always found out on grassy plains without a tree in sight.

They are spooky critters with eyes about as good as a eagles.

Yes, they are curious about strange things but flagging them into range isn't commonly done.

I notice there is not only a Bow season for them but there is a organization of Bow Hunters that specialize in hunting them.

IMO, any critter that can be hunted with a bow sure can be hunted successfully with a muzzleloader without taking 130+ yard shots.

Like everyone else, you are entitled to your opinion but I think you should try hunting antelope with a bow before you go spouting off about how easy it is to get within 60 yards of one. To successfully bow hunt an antelope you need to be able to bait or shoot over waterholes. You sure as hell aren't going to crawl within range except for maybe 1 in 100 tries, and you better have full frontal cactus and thorn protection on or you won't get past the first crawl.

As a side note, I have seen flagging work in the off season, it has never worked after gun season was open.

I knew when I posted this I was swimming upstream based on the regularly published views on here. Like I said earlier, come out west and see the hunting difference for yourself. I also said, not everyone is capable of this and it takes a lot of practice to be proficient. I have not changed my mind but for those that want to try it, I want them to know it is possible.

 

[Dean2]

Meant to say in the earleir post in response to Zonie that I agree with you that over 300 yards the PRB is not a reliable projectile with enough penetration and you would need to use elongated bullets. If you can't get within 300 yards you would need to use something else besides a traditional ML and PRB to hunt with.

 

[Zonie]

Dean2

I am out West.