250-yard Flintlock Shooting

[Grenadier1758]

Back when I shot muzzle loading rifle silhouette targets on a regular basis, I was able to shoot the targets from the crows at 50 yards to the bears at 200 yards with my fixed sight rifle. The rifle was a 45 caliber rifle loaded with 60 to 90 grains of 3f powder firing a ball of 0.445" diameter, wrapped in an 0.017" cotton drill patch lubed with spit. I held at the base of the crow's body where the legs joined the body for the 50 yard targets. Center of the groundhog for the 100 yard targets. The hump of the buffalo for the 150 yard targets. The head height of the turkey but centered over the back for the turkey at 175 yards. The bears at 200 yards required a hold of the full sight where the base of the front sight was held at the bottom of the notch of the rear sight and the top of the front sight was held on the bear's ear. Which ear depended on the direction of the wind. The ball would hit the bear on its thigh. It was easier to hit a bear than hit a turkey and even then my success on the bears was at best 50%. I didn't have a longer range so I can't report on longer range shots. Yes, the shots were all offhand even though kneeling or prone position was allowed for the bear targets only. Took too long to get off the ground to reload for the 4 shots in 5 minutes.

What was amazing was that those watching with spotting scopes could often see the ball in flight as it was shot at the bears and turkeys. It did help to be shooting on a sunny day and to use bright shiny balls.

 

[Ben Meyer]

Thx Grenidier. Once I get the gun I ordered, I'm gonna give it a go. I'm gonna "figure" that gun out....play with powders(swiss, goex, old enysford in 2F and 3F), charges, holdovers, etc. I'll probably stay with the same balls and lubed pillow ticking patches I always use though. Will start off a bench and work up to offhand. It's a personal challenge. Ive been reading books about late 18th century sharpshooters and if they could do it, I feel I can too. Just gonna take a bunch of time, lead and powder!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Sometimes those 18th century sharpshooters exaggerated a bit, just like those of us 21st century sharpshooters do today.

Shooting accuracy, whether for target or hunting, is all about consistency. Simple aspects can be controlled, such as ball size, ball weight, patch thickness, and patch lubrication. Powder granulation size, using the same volume measure, and powder lot number, pouring powder into the measure the same way can make slight differences in performance. Then it becomes practice to improve. That way you learn about wind effects. You learn about glare from the sun on the sights.

You can learn a lot about shooting for accuracy from Dutch Schoultz's blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com system. There's a lot to learn from his system. New shooters of muzzle loading rifles should follow the system exactly to get results as soon as possible.

 

[Zonie]

I dont know what kind of sights his gun has, but question....if ones rifle has traditional iron sights, how does one "sight in at 200 yds"? Filing? I wouldn't want to do that. If ones rifle with iron sights hits and groups at 50 yds, how high would you need to hold over at 200 and 250? Say, .490 ball, pillow ticking patch, 90gr of Swiss, 41" barrel.

Just for fun, although I didn't find barrel lengths that matched your 41" barrel in the Lyman Blackpowder handbook the information I did find said a 100 grain load of GOEX 3Fg gave them a velocity of 1911 fps with a 50 caliber barrel. That 100 grains of GOEX should be about the same as 90 grains of Swiss.

Poking the velocity into my computer roundball trajectory program, if it is sighted in at 50 yards the ball will be hitting below the point of aim at the following distances:

100 yards = -5.3 inches
160 yards = -25.8 inches
200 yards = -51.6 inches
240 yards = -90.7 inches
260 yards = -116.5 inches
280 yards = -147.2 inches
300 yards = -184.2 inches
320 yards = -227.8 inches
340 yards = -279.2 inches
360 yards = -340.4 inches
380 yards = -412.2 inches

If my Tyron rifle with it's tang mounted ladder rear sight was zeroed in at 50 yards, I would need to raise it .373 inches to hit the bullseye at 240 yards or .442 inches to hit the bullseye at 260 yards. That means I would need to raise it .407 inches to hit the bullseye at 250 yards.
The sight would need to be raised .518 inches to hit the bullseye at 280 yards.
The distance between the sights on my Tyron is 35.5 inches.

 

[Wichoun]

Thank you for sharing the video SDSmlf... I'm new to flintlock and this really helped to understand, especially around the varying grain load and how increasing the grain load could help in longer range accuracy except it will diminish at some point. this makes sense in finding the best load, with highest velocity and best grouping...

 

[Sidney Smith]

Grenadier:

You don't see the projectile in the spotting scope but what you do see is the shock wave of it as it travels through the air. When we spot for modern rifle shooters at our long range you can see this same phenomena. You can tell whether the shooter is going to hit the target or go astray before the bullet even arrives on target.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

You can see the projectile if the light is right, generally behind you. At least with projectiles in our velocity range.

 

[LME]

I am confused? My 54Cal. Ithaca hawkens has to be aimed about 6' over the target at 200yards. To stay in a foot circle.I shoot a .530 ball with a .015 patch 80 Gr. powder. sighted in at 100 yards.

 

[Ben Meyer]

50 yard zero, with 100gr charge
100 yards = -5.3 inches
160 yards = -25.8 inches
200 yards = -51.6 inches

Based of this, I glean that if sighted in with a 100 yard zero, it would drop 51.6" minus 5.3"(the zeroing difference in drop between 50 and 100yds) which means your holdover at 200 yards would be 46.3" high. With 80 grains of powder, it would be more. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Gene L]

Great shooting. Very impressive. You've got steady hands and great eyesight.

 

[SDSmlf]

50 yard zero, with 100gr charge
100 yards = -5.3 inches
160 yards = -25.8 inches
200 yards = -51.6 inches

Based of this, I glean that if sighted in with a 100 yard zero, it would drop 51.6" minus 5.3"(the zeroing difference in drop between 50 and 100yds) which means your holdover at 200 yards would be 46.3" high. With 80 grains of powder, it would be more. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You are close. My ballistics calculator says that a .49 ball at 1911 FPS MV zeroed at 100 yards would be about 41” low at 200 and 91” low at 250 yards.

 

[F.G. Ford]

With a bullet drop of 91" at 250 yards, you could possibly shoot your own foot, if you shot at a target at 500 yards.
Seriously, you can see long distance shooting with a round ball rifle is quite a challenge.
To be a good sportsman, you should be able to break an egg at 75 yards consistently, and a marksman, be able to break an egg at 150 yards.
Bouncing the bullet in gravel in front of the egg does not count.
The transition from shooting a modern center fire round, to a round ball muzzle loader is one heck of a challenge.
If anyone gets the chance to shoot at a silhouette range, where you shoot various steel targets at ranges from 25 yards to 300 yards, take it. You will be amazed how much your rifle( and you ) misses targets 25 yards distant from your normal shooting.

 

[olskool]

it has been said "beware of a man who has only one gun, chances are he knows how to use it" back in the 70s when I was a young man I had one rifle. I was not fortunate enough to have a BP rifle, but I had a BP pistol. I had a model 700 remington in 6mm rem. cal. I was blessed enough to have been a handloader from the age of 10 years old and still am at age 62, I was incredibly good with that rifle with its cheap 4x Bushnell scope. one afternoon at almost dark I killed a buck at 488 long steps wile leaning on a tree. I was use to blowing up gallon jugs from a distance and new the hold over, knowing your gun at distance is key,,,,,,,,

 

[Sidney Smith]

50 yard zero, with 100gr charge
100 yards = -5.3 inches
160 yards = -25.8 inches
200 yards = -51.6 inches

Based of this, I glean that if sighted in with a 100 yard zero, it would drop 51.6" minus 5.3"(the zeroing difference in drop between 50 and 100yds) which means your holdover at 200 yards would be 46.3" high. With 80 grains of powder, it would be more. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This sounds about right, at least from my experience. I zero my Flintlock rifles at 50 yards, and on the odd occasion when I do decide to put some lead down range to 100 yards, I have to hold over to the tune of about 6 to 8 inches. I shoot 80 grains of 2fg in my .54 cal.

 

[nkbj]

If percussion cap technology hadn't popped up when it did there probably would have been military snipers shooting fast twist flinters.
Hmm, wonder if a matchlock would be easier at long range with less mechanical movement imparted to the piece.