2f or 3f powder?

[kingsax26]

Im sure that id find the info in the annals of the website by doing a seasrch but I dont ahve that much time. SO, what is the real difference between 2f and 3f powders? I shoot 3f in all my gubs but I hear and see talk of using 2f....all of my guns are reasonably accurate with 3f...theres a few id like to tighten up. But is there that much difference between the two regarding accurracy? also when do you use one or the other?

 

[SgtSchutzen]

As far as I know the only real difference is that 3f burns faster than 2f. That said, it will generate pressure faster. Back in the 80`s when I first got interested in muzzleloaders "the people who knew" said 3f was for pistols and rifles .45cal and smaller. 2f was for the bigger bores. Today folks don`t seem to follow that rule much anymore. I have pistols and rifles up to .50cal and use 3f for all of them. The only thing I use 2f powder for is my 12ga shotgun.

 

[necchi]

Burn rate.
You say you need to tighten up a few groups,,
Well most folks can do that without really changing powder by working the other variables.
Patch lube properties, Patch thickness being two huge factors,, even Ball size can make a big difference.
I'm not saying a change in powder size won't make a difference, but that can usually be accommodated with the charge size change,,

 

[galamb]

Yep, 3F is faster burning than 2F.

It reaches peak pressure quicker. For that reason you "tend" to use 10% LESS 3f than you would 2f all else being equal.

Logic would dictate that in a longer barrel with a larger bore the 2F "should" do a better job of moving the projectile down the barrel and then onto the target.

However, most BP guns don't "understand logic" :rotf:

If you are getting good results with 3F then you have no reason to switch. If you think you may be able to "tighten up" your groups AND that is important to you (for whatever reason), trying 2F in 45 cals and larger certainly won't hurt anything.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Im sure that id find the info in the annals of the website by doing a seasrch but I dont ahve that much time. SO, what is the real difference between 2f and 3f powders? I shoot 3f in all my gubs but I hear and see talk of using 2f....all of my guns are reasonably accurate with 3f...theres a few id like to tighten up. But is there that much difference between the two regarding accurracy? also when do you use one or the other?

The real difference is the size of the powder granules. The mix of carbon, sulfur and potassium nitrate are the same. In use the size difference means that the smaller sized 3f has more surface area to burn, the 3f burns faster. You need about 10% less 3f powder than 2f for the same muzzle velocity. 3f may burn a little cleaner.

In terms of difference of accuracy, that will depend on how your rifle reacts to the sharper recoil with 3f. You may not feel it. So you will have to go to the target range and try. There's no hard and fast answer I can give for accuracy improvement. Too many other factors at play there.

 

[mzloder]

...theres a few id like to tighten up.

Seriously? If so,check this link, then send for "The System". Best $20 you'll ever spend!
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/index.html

 

[necchi]

I'm pretty sure Byron's got it,
But it don't work in bit-n-peices, ya gotta do the whole thing,, :idunno:

 

[BrownBear]

But is there that much difference between the two regarding accurracy? also when do you use one or the other?

There can be considerable differences from one rifle to the next. It's always worth trying each one in any rifle. Let the rifle tell you which it likes best. I know of no way to guess beforehand, and that's over a wide range of calibers and barrel lengths.

 

[Dphar]

Blackpowders primary burn rate control is grain size since its a surface burning propellant.
SO... FFFF is twice as fast as FFF which is twice as fast as FF which is twice as fast as F. This is based on the available surface area.
Now this does NOT equate to FFF making twice the pressure of FF.

Dan

 

[kingsax26]

OK thanks for the info..... Yes I already have Dutch's shooting system. The only reason id like to tighten them up is because I have not been able to mess with them enough. I was just asking about the differences in powder because I saw someone using 2f in there smoothie..... Just wanted to make sure I was not missing something.
However since it was mentioned what is the difference in recoil between the 2f, and 3f

 

[Grenadier1758]

Any difference in recoil will depend on many factors such as the weight of your rifle, the amount of the powder charge, and your own ability to feel recoil.

If you reduce your 3f powder charge to be 90% of the 2f powder charge, you probably won't be able to tell any difference.

Really, we can't give you the definitive answer. Only you can load up your rifle and find out.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Blackpowders primary burn rate control is grain size since its a surface burning propellant.
SO... FFFF is twice as fast as FFF which is twice as fast as FF which is twice as fast as F. This is based on the available surface area.
Now this does NOT equate to FFF making twice the pressure of FF.
Dan

I agree with Dan and those who mention that burn rates are based on granule size and the increased surface area in the smaller granules. I'm sure Dan's comments refer to the burn rate in barrel charges. I have not experimented with burn rates inside the barrel, but I did time powder burn rates in the the pan - in open air.

In the article (link below) I timed more than 3fg and 2fg, but you can see how they relate to each other in open air. I don't know how these numbers will relate to barrel charges, maybe a test of barrel burn rates ought to be conducted. Dan, sometimes I think we should live closer together.

Priming Powder Timing

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Col. Batguano]

Thanks Pletch. Great article. The shorter the ignition time, the smaller the (theoretical) group size for those of us that shoot out of something other than a machine vice or rest.

Would the results of this also indicate that the main charge will light at a retarded rate based upon grain size too? That would stand to reason, as the flame from the pan has to get through that tiny little hole to set it off.