2fg or 3fg

[Chaplain Dan]

I have always used 3fg in a revolver and my 45 cal Hawkens. should I use the same in my Hawkens 50Cal flinter?

 

[roundball]

I have always used 3fg in a revolver and my 45 cal Hawkens. should I use the same in my Hawkens 50Cal flinter?

You can use 3F in any caliber you like...its all the same blackpowder...pressure is the main concern due to the different burn rates of smaller sized kernels.
I use 3F in everything up to and including .62 calibers...and I follow the industry rule of thumb, which is to reduce the 2F load data by 10-15% when substituting 3F.
IE: Instead of using 100grns 2F, use 85grns 3F.

 

[rabbit03]

Hello Walks With Eagles,

It has always been my observation that the rule of thumb would be at the .50 cal. is where the deviding line is. You can use either one and see just what you rifle likes the best. I would try to get the load you think would be a good load for what you're trying to use it for ie. Hunting/target and use the same load of 2/3 F and see just which one feels and performs the best then go from there.

rabbit03

 

[Chaplain Dan]

Hello Walks With Eagles,

It has always been my observation that the rule of thumb would be at the .50 cal. is where the deviding line is. You can use either one and see just what you rifle likes the best. I would try to get the load you think would be a good load for what you're trying to use it for ie. Hunting/target and use the same load of 2/3 F and see just which one feels and performs the best then go from there.

rabbit03

thats what I heard also thanks for the info I will do a little testing with both

 

[Chaplain Dan]

I have always used 3fg in a revolver and my 45 cal Hawkens. should I use the same in my Hawkens 50Cal flinter?

You can use 3F in any caliber you like...its all the same blackpowder...pressure is the main concern due to the different burn rates of smaller sized kernels.
I use 3F in everything up to and including .62 calibers...and I follow the industry rule of thumb, which is to reduce the 2F load data by 10-15% when substituting 3F.
IE: Instead of using 100grns 2F, use 85grns 3F.

Thanks I have always used 3fg in everything but thanks for the info I was going to use 90 to 100 grains

 

[paulvallandigham]

I recommend using FFg in flintlocks, and FFFg in percussion guns. With percussion, the guns shoot better with a compressed powder charge. With Flint, a loose load is more accurate. Seat your ball to a point where it just beings to grind granules of powder, and then mark your loading rod. Load to the mark from there on to get the best consistency.

As to compressing powder, the 3Fg will compress to some extent just falling down the length of your barrel, provided that you hold the barrel upright when you pour in the powder. The barrel acts like a drop tube. Most shooters put a certain amount of pressure on the ball when its seated, to further compress the load. Some mark the loading rod at the place where the powder is properly compressed. That seems to be the easiest method to take into the hunting fields, IMHO.

 

[Chaplain Dan]

Thanks for the information...I shall try it out I have a lot of 2fg...Walks with Eagles
:v

 

[Landngroove]

I use Goex FFFG in both my .50 Hawken Flinter (80 grains + PRB) and my .54 Hawken Flinter. (90 grains + PRB) However, my .54 percussion Hawken likes Goex FFG (100 grains + PRB) Try both powders, and see what yours likes.

 

[Swampman]

I use 3F for everything. Since I never shoot charges that are even 1/2 the max. a gun can safely handle, I don't worry about pressure.

The guns are much easier to clean, and you use a lot less powder to get the same results.

 

[Todd Rickard]

90 to 100 grains is a lot for a .50. You can plink and target shoot with 50 to 65 grains.

 

[shmrck1]

walks with eagles,
I don't have any cal. above .54 so in order to simplify I use nothing but 3fff. From my .32 to my
.54. I even grind up 3fff just a bit and use it as pan charge in my .50 GPR F/L. I've never had any major problems. It did require some expermenting in the .54. Settled on 80 grns 3fff
Goex. :hmm:
snake-eyes :hatsoff:

 

[Chaplain Dan]

Thank you all for the great replys I shall take it all into consideration...WWE :hmm:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

I now use 3F in everything with good success.

 

[shmrck1]

:thumbsup:
snake-eyes :hatsoff:

 

[Phantom Captain]

I use Goex 2f in my .58 caliber muskets with great results, however, my Dad has a Hawken .54 and he prefers 3f in that. It's really up to you and what works for you.

I only use Goex 3f in my cap and ball revolvers.

 

[bucktales]

With my GPR .54, I did not notice very much change in accuracy between 2F and 3F. Shot well with both, maybe a bit better with 3F.

OTOH, I did notice a big change in accuracy for the better switching to 3F in my T/C WMC in .54. Strictly a fast twist conical gun with a shorty barrel. I'm just guessing, but I think I have a more complete burn using 3F rather than 2F in such a short barreled carbine.

 

[PreglerD]

I use in all my ML rifles the 2f from WANO (PP). I have a .45 GPR, .50 Deerhunter and a .54 Investarm traderifle. It works quite accurate.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

...and I follow the industry rule of thumb, which is to reduce the 2F load data by 10-15% when substituting 3F.
IE: Instead of using 100grns 2F, use 85grns 3F.

Roundball, do you (or any of those reading this) have any information on where this "10-15%" figure comes from? I haven't found any authoritative sources for it.

The reason I ask it that, when I got started 35 years ago, the common wisdom was to increase the charge by up to 1/3 when going from 3F to 2F to get the same velocity (equivalent to decreasing the charge by up to 1/4 going from 2F to 3F). By this convention, you might be able to drop the 3F charge further to around 75gr and get the same velocity as 100gr of 2F. Getting the same point of impact is a separate matter - muzzle whip and barrel rise have more involved than just muzzle velocity.

When I looked at the Lyman and Gun Digest loading manuals (and other sources), where they compare loads with different granulations of powder by the same manufacturer fired in the same gun, I found the charge increase required to get the same velocity (usually had to interpolate a bit, given 10 grain increments often listed) when going from 3F to 2F varied from 15% to 55%. Caliber, projectile, barrel length, etc. certainly cause differences, and the charge increases varied somewhat by the pressure/velocity involved in a given barrel, but by far the majority of the charge increases ranged from 1/4-1/3 (25%-33%). This is equivalent to reducing the charge by 1/5-1/4 (20%-25%) when going from 2F to 3F. When pressures were given, they were always higher with the 3F, and often significantly so, but none that I noticed were excessive with reasonable loads. I'd probably look at pressures again if I were working with heavy loads in a comparatively thin-walled barrel - my 13/16" .50 Pedersoli, for example.

This is not a pick-on question - you posting was just the most recent time I'd seen this cited, and I thought I'd finally ask. The real world is often more complex than we think. Rules of thumb are always just starting points for experimentation, and I am honestly looking for more information.

Thanks,
Joel

 

[Headhunter]

I use 3-F Goex in everything, Revolver to 58 Cal.

Headhunter

 

[steinauge]

I reckon if you stick to the 1 to 1 1\4grain per caliber rule you couldnt get into much trouble either way.I use 2f in my own rifles just because thats the way I learned it 50 years ago.