.32 caliber frustrations with not grouping.

[40calFlintlock]

History.

For the last two years, I have been conducting scientific trials on finding the best combination of: powder manufacturer/granulation/charge, patch thickness, patch lubricants, and ball diameter with no luck of repeatability.

The scientific method is a ‘Design of Experiments’ in which I used a large and small round ball diameter, thick and thin patch, and a large and small powder charge. There are eight trials in which all possible combinations are made. Each trial I take three shots and all I’m going for is a grouping somewhere on the target. Each series is performed three times before changing the inputs and starting all over again. For example, a given trial, I’ll get 3 shots inside of a 3” circle, the next time I run that same trial, I’m lucky enough to get all 3 shots on an 8.5 X 11 sheet of paper.

My inputs: .311 & .315 swaged round ball, .010 & .015 dry lube patches, .020 pillow ticking with crisco (R) lube and .025 & .032 blue jean material with crisco (R) lube, GOEX & Schutzen 4f and 3f powder, and 25, 30, 35, and 40 grain main charges with same manufacturer of 4f for the pan. All shots are made from 25yds, rifle resting on a bag with the butt supported and held securely against my shoulder with my free hand.

NOTE - 20 grain charges result in squib shots moving the ball forward a few inches and the main charge exiting out of the vent hole, a long ffffffft and no recoil.

So, my questions are: 1) has anyone else had the same problems and 2) when successful (consistent groupings) what was your successful combination?

Apologies for the lengthy post. I wanted to post as much information as possible and keep it condensed.

Thank you

 

[waksupi]

First off, it sounds like your vent is too big.

 

[#blackpowderbill]

You're mixing everything up way too much. You're not consistent.
Pick a ball,Patch,charge and water based lube or spit patch.
And work from their.

 

[Freedom]

Your vent is too big.. 20gr will fire the ball from my 58cal
And 3 shots is not a group. 5 shots is a trend,...10 shots is a group.

Many 3-shot folks would be quite surprised to find out that their "accurate" load it's not as accurate as they think... 10 shots will often result in multiple groups.

 

[kyron4]

Your vent is too big.. 20gr will fire the ball from my 58cal
And 3 shots is not a group. 5 shots is a trend,...10 shots is a group.

Many 3-shot folks would be quite surprised to find out that their "accurate" load it's not as accurate as they think... 10 shots will often result in multiple groups.

This is true. I dry balled my 50 cal and pushed between 5 and 10 grains thru the touch hole and it fired the ball out and landed about 50 yards away. This was out of a 34" barrel.

 

[PathfinderNC]

Maybe you’re just not a good shot. Not trying to be mean, just putting it out there.

 

[cynthialee]

20 grains should be firing that ball very efficiently.
If it is squibbing like you say the vent is too large.

.32 only needs like 15-25 grains, 25 would be a stout load. 40 grains is serious overkill for a .32

 

[French Colonial]

AND.....

It could be the rifle, is it a full stock? Are the barrel pin tenon holes elongated? If not temperature and humidity are not your friend, Is it a half stock? Is the wedge and breech seated the same every time.

It is almost impossible to diagnose accuracy problems from the internet, all that being said it does sound like your vent is to large.

 

[waksupi]

Another thing, with that bore size, your patching is too thick. You will need muslin patches, with the right size balls. I would go for a lower viscosity lube, too. At the time, you don't have a basis for any kind of a "scientific" study.

 

[longwalk]

Where are you located in N.E.Ohio ? I made a 32 cal. percussion half stock and use ox yoke .015 patch with 25 gr. goex 3f powder. At 25 yds. from a rest I can shoot a 1" to ! 1/2" group using neatsfoot oil as a lube.

 

[Grenadier1758]

A significant part of @40calFlintlock's accuracy problem is the touch hole. 20 grains of powder is a good load for a 32. That touch hole should be no larger than 1/16" in diameter. The large touch hole is contributing to a lack of consistency in the pressure of the firing charge. Either install a new touch hole liner or install one of the internally coned liners. Because of the lack of consistency in the chamber pressure, the design of experiments concept won't work.

Reasonable powder charges of 12 grains, 15 grains, 18 grains, 20 grains to 25 grains of 3fg black powder measured by volume would be my powder charges for load development. I would use the thinner patches of 0.010 and 0.015" cotton patching. I have had better results using a damp lubricant.

Change out the touch hole and start the experiment over again.

 

[SDSmlf]

My inputs: .311 & .315 swaged round ball, .010 & .015 dry lube patches, .020 pillow ticking with crisco (R) lube and .025 & .032 blue jean material with crisco (R) lube, GOEX & Schutzen 4f and 3f powder, and 25, 30, 35, and 40 grain main charges with same manufacturer of 4f for the pan. All shots are made from 25yds, rifle resting on a bag with the butt supported and held securely against my shoulder with my free hand.

Your results indicate a poorly designed experiment. You designed it in a vacuum and have not included or considered all the input factors.

NOTE - 20 grain charges result in squib shots moving the ball forward a few inches and the main charge exiting out of the vent hole, a long ffffffft and no recoil.

As others have suggested, it appears your touch hole is too large, or from what you describe 20 grains of powder doing, the touch hole liner may be missing.

 

[Sun City]

Chasing powders ain't gonna work! Chasing practice will! When you can get the center of a fifty cent sized bull shot out from 25 yards ....work from there! Here's two BIG CLUES......FRONT SIGHT AND TRIGGER CONTROL!

 

[Tony Rothrock]

Your sample size is way too small. Given the vagarities inherent in ball diameter, patch thickness, even the lube effectiveness, you got to shoot a lot more than 3 rounds of each combination. Throw in environmental factors - wind, temp, humidity, and you need to do even more.

 

[Hermit Tim]

Can you post a pic of the touch hole?

 

[Arrow139]

History.

For the last two years, I have been conducting scientific trials on finding the best combination of: powder manufacturer/granulation/charge, patch thickness, patch lubricants, and ball diameter with no luck of repeatability.

The scientific method is a ‘Design of Experiments’ in which I used a large and small round ball diameter, thick and thin patch, and a large and small powder charge. There are eight trials in which all possible combinations are made. Each trial I take three shots and all I’m going for is a grouping somewhere on the target. Each series is performed three times before changing the inputs and starting all over again. For example, a given trial, I’ll get 3 shots inside of a 3” circle, the next time I run that same trial, I’m lucky enough to get all 3 shots on an 8.5 X 11 sheet of paper.

My inputs: .311 & .315 swaged round ball, .010 & .015 dry lube patches, .020 pillow ticking with crisco (R) lube and .025 & .032 blue jean material with crisco (R) lube, GOEX & Schutzen 4f and 3f powder, and 25, 30, 35, and 40 grain main charges with same manufacturer of 4f for the pan. All shots are made from 25yds, rifle resting on a bag with the butt supported and held securely against my shoulder with my free hand.

NOTE - 20 grain charges result in squib shots moving the ball forward a few inches and the main charge exiting out of the vent hole, a long ffffffft and no recoil.

So, my questions are: 1) has anyone else had the same problems and 2) when successful (consistent groupings) what was your successful combination?

Apologies for the lengthy post. I wanted to post as much information as possible and keep it condensed.

Thank you

Hello,

History.

For the last two years, I have been conducting scientific trials on finding the best combination of: powder manufacturer/granulation/charge, patch thickness, patch lubricants, and ball diameter with no luck of repeatability.

The scientific method is a ‘Design of Experiments’ in which I used a large and small round ball diameter, thick and thin patch, and a large and small powder charge. There are eight trials in which all possible combinations are made. Each trial I take three shots and all I’m going for is a grouping somewhere on the target. Each series is performed three times before changing the inputs and starting all over again. For example, a given trial, I’ll get 3 shots inside of a 3” circle, the next time I run that same trial, I’m lucky enough to get all 3 shots on an 8.5 X 11 sheet of paper.

My inputs: .311 & .315 swaged round ball, .010 & .015 dry lube patches, .020 pillow ticking with crisco (R) lube and .025 & .032 blue jean material with crisco (R) lube, GOEX & Schutzen 4f and 3f powder, and 25, 30, 35, and 40 grain main charges with same manufacturer of 4f for the pan. All shots are made from 25yds, rifle resting on a bag with the butt supported and held securely against my shoulder with my free hand.

NOTE - 20 grain charges result in squib shots moving the ball forward a few inches and the main charge exiting out of the vent hole, a long ffffffft and no recoil.

So, my questions are: 1) has anyone else had the same problems and 2) when successful (consistent groupings) what was your successful combination?

Apologies for the lengthy post. I wanted to post as much information as possible and keep it condensed.

Thank you

Hello .40cal,

Read your post and teplies closely. No one has mentioned swabbing bore between shots. This may be the issue. Small bores foul very quickly, and need damp cloth patches between each and every shot to make your testi as cocsistent as possible. I suggest swabbing and mabe even dry brushing between shots. It ma make all the diffetence.

 

[olskool]

small bores do not need swabbing between any shots. with water and dawn dish soap i can shoot any cal. literally for days and never "swab" and the last ball will go down like the first. first off you have to use the right patch and ball. you can't be changing components all over the place, stick to one thing and see where it leads. powder brand has nothing to do with it, but again stick with one thing for the moment. also, at 25yds off a rested bench with any combo it should shoot a one-hole group or at least clover leaf. if not get another shooter and see how they do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[J.D.]

Just a thought. Try a over powder patch/wad under the patched ball, to push the powder down into the breech. In my experience, light powder charges, can adhere to the bore, in small bores, as opposed to finding its way into the breech. Also, an overly wet patch, with grease or water, will foul small powder charges.

Do take the advice of those above, and try an OP wad/patch, of some sort. I use scrap bits of dry patching rolled into a ball, pushed down prior to loading the patched ball.

 

[8Ball]

Someone must figure that shooting a flintlock from a bench or standing must be hold firmly with both hands and at the shoulder. The inertia from the hammer holding the flint that hit the frizzen and making it swing makes flinters can make it unstable, more... particular than other guns. My 2 cents...

 

[kyron4]

Someone must figure that shooting a flintlock from a bench or standing must be hold firmly with both hands and at the shoulder. The inertia from the hammer holding the flint that hit the frizzen and making it swing makes flinters can make it unstable, more... particular than other guns. My 2 cents...

I agree, I shot mine better from an "offhand" position than from the bench with bags.