35 gr. 3F + .440 RB=Bambi,,,,, (?)

[riarcher]

Guy at the range yesterday was asking what I though about using this .44 with 35gr. 3Fg on deer out to 75 yds.
Said it shot really good that way (actually, mine does too) and he felt it should do well on deer.
I mentioned something about if he hit in the shoulder if he thought it would go through the bone and into the boiler room? He said, "Sure! Why not? it's almost a .44-40."
Hmmmmmm, I still think it's a bit light, but then again I'm not so sure. I know folks use .40 cal with smaller loads and get their deer with what I believe to be less muzzle energy.
Was he right?
Personnaly I don't think it compares to the .44-40 because the round carries much more weight in the bullet and while it maybe a bit slower (?) the added weight gives it more foot pounds of energy.
Any thoughts on this?

 

I don

 

[musketman]

Barrel length will come into play here, a longer barrel will produce a greater velocity and higher energy than a shorter barrel with like charges...

It's off to the Lyman muzzleloader's handbook...

All loads shown are with the same 30 grain charge of FFFg, .445 round ball, .015 patch and Crisco lube, only the barrel length is different...

30 grains of FFFg
28 inch barrel
1065 fps
334 FT/lbs muzzle energy

30 grains of FFFg
32 inch barrel
1240 fps
453 FT/lbs muzzle energy

30 grains of FFFg
36 inch barrel
1294 fps
493 FT/lbs muzzle energy

30 grains of FFFg
40 inch barrel
1327 fps
519 FT/lbs muzzle energy

30 grains of FFFg
43 inch barrel
1331 fps
522 FT/lbs muzzle energy

Anyway, I agree with Captchee, if you only have one shot, why chance it?

Economics should not be employed during the hunt, years to come you may regret the "light load" test, unlike fishing, the one that gets away is still going to die, it still has a .45 caliber hole in it...

 

[riarcher]

Captchee, we have the same 45 cal. restriction here. You're thoughts on the effectiveness is the point I tried making with him. Seems like hunting with a pea-shooter,,,,,,
,,, and then MM comes along with the Lyman manual and much to my dismay I didn't relly think 30 gr. would have that much oomph. ::
I was probably wrong in my suggestion of starting at 50 gr. and going up for satisfactory grouping. Maybe 40-45 gr. would work? (that would only be anouther 5-10 gr. for him)
What started it all was his Bang compared to my 70gr. KABOOM :: (I was just torsing some maxis that don't work too well for me to begin with.)

 

[tg]

I am not an advocate of heavy load by any means, but 35 gr in a .45 IMHO is way to light for 75yd shooting, I use 60 gr in my .45 and .40 and feel 75yds to be the max and prefer 50 yds or so.

 

[shmrck1]

I agree with tg, i can hit a pie plate @100yds with 45gr
but i am much more at ease with 40gr at 50 to 75 yds
I am snake-eyes

 

Used 60grs fffg in 1-66twist for deer. 35grs pretty light!!

 

Awe common! 30 to 35 grains of 3fg in a .45 under a r/b is a PEST load! :curse: :bull:
Look at the figures MM posted at the MUZZLE, now cut that muzzle energy by about 65% at 100 yards and you got NUTHIN'!
Yeh, it MIGHT kill a deer, but is much more likely to wound one to suffer a lingering painful death,
Using loads that light is downright inhumane!
Loads that light in the .45 with r/b will loose 50% at just 50 yards. That's mighty weak indeed.
Listen if you had a 44-40, and a 30-06 which would you take deer hunting?
The 44-40 was a lousy revolver round in the first place. That's why it didn't survive or stay as popular as the venerable .45 Colt.
I would not hesitate to hunt with a .45 OR .40 with r/b IF loaded with 60 or more grains of powder then keep shots to tree stand ranges of UNDER 50 yards.
Now listen up. If your range buddy is using that light load and sees ol' Mossy Horns at 80 yards you know damn well he's gonna shoot at it. The results will not be good.
Some people got rocks fer brains. :bull:

 

[tg]

Your point is a very good one Maxi, and I believe it is the reason theRB gets such a bad rap from many....there will always be that deer just past what we feel out max. range is and most will take the shot, I suggest setting ones range limits on the conservative side and practice discipline in following them....there will always be another day. I have seen many shooters on trail walks who are ready for deer out to 100 yds that consistantly miss 8" targets at 75 yds.

 

[musketman]

there will always be that deer just past what we feel out max. range is and most will take the shot, I suggest setting ones range limits on the conservative side and practice discipline in following them....

Another good point, do you know 50 yards from 75 yards without the markers?

Can you judge the distance in the woods within a few feet?

What I did was to get to my deer stand and mark my shooting lanes in distance, I carried a 50 yard length of twine and measured out in the shooting directions to my set limit...

I would mark the trails with a natural marker (branch, rock ect.), any deer between me and this marker was in shooting range...

 

[Ohio Joe]

I think a hunting charge of 35 grains of 3fg under a .440 roundball is just way to lite. If you see this guy again, suggest to him that he should set up a 2x8 in front of a plastic milk or water jug with a piece of 24" x 48" cardboard behind it, and set it at 75 yards on a windy, or semi windy day and take some shots at it. Heck, try it on a calm day... He should be able to answer his question from the results I would think... If he could learn to work up a good 35 grain load, he should have no problem working up a 60 + grain load for a humane kill at 75 yards...

 

More really good points from some savy shooters.
(well o.k. "savy might be a stretch for moosketperson)
I do the same trick as musketman. i like to hunt from a tree stand on my place for several good reasons. One, you can see much more and better.
Two it's safer shooting DOWN at your target. If you miss your ball plows into the ground.
Three, I feel safer in a tree stand. (from other hunters with slug shooting shotguns machine gunning the woods!)
I useually will mark off 50, 75, 100 and 150 yards from my stand which overlooks a cut cornfeild in one direction and my woods in another.
Naturally the woods side ranges are shorter, can't see much beyound 75 yards even from the tree stand.
If a deer is beyond the 150 marker, usually a short tree branch stuck in the ground, no shot will be taken.
Depending upon the weapon I choose to use, the shot may not be taken beyond the 75 or 100 yard marker.
With the bow 35 yards is my limit. ( o.k. I did take a doe at 55 paces once, but that's before I knew you couldn't hit one that far away!)
By the way the furthest I ever shot a deer was a running button buck at 175 paces with a 12 ga. smoothbore slug pump gun. 9 very unlucky deer)

 

maxi,,go back to your job! you ain't sposta be on-line when yer at work! wanna here the story about a 140yrd shot some feller made that put "dust" at their feet!

moosecatman is right..most don't know how to judge distance,they don't shoot enough.

 

[musketman]

moosecatman is right..most don't know how to judge distance,they don't shoot enough.

Not only that, there is a big difference in shooting at the gun range compaired to shooting under hunting conditions...

This is why I also range shoot in the woods, the light is filtered through trees casting many shadows, there's also branches, shrubs and hills to contend with, not the smooth unobstructed lanes of a shooting range...

You can shoot all summer long and get hundreds of shots in the X ring and still miss your mark during deer season, why?
Because you have a few coats and shirts on during deer season, this makes you hold the gun differently and throws your aim off... (it changes your length of pull by the thickness of your clothes and coats)

You can simulate winter apparel by matching the thichness of your hunting clothes with a few folded towels drapped over your shoulder during summer shooting sessions...

 

Musketman: That's another reason I shoot with the "sissy pad", PAST recoil shield as it simulate the thickness of winter clothing as well as preventing bruising.

 

[musketman]

as well as preventing bruising.

Well, if ya didn't load 14,000 grains of FFFg in the barrel behind a double ball, the gun wouldn't jump as much...

Heck, ya uses 120 grains in the pan alone for a good flash to start that old flinter...

Maxi had such a fireball in the pan it turned his flint back into magma and burnt the eyebrows right off of him...
:haha: :haha: :haha:

 

[roundball]

This thread is why I like stout loads for deer hunting so there's never a doubt about power levels:
90grns Goex FFFg for .440/.490/.530 patched balls; 100grns Goex FFg for a .570;
Basically in the thick woods where I hunt, if I can see them these loads will take them...max visibility is 75-90yds, average shot is 40-50yds.

 

[musketman]

This thread is why I like stout loads for deer hunting so there's never a doubt about power levels:
90grns Goex FFFg for .440/.490/.530 patched balls;

In a 33 inch barrel, the 90 grain load with a .440 patched round ball will give roughly 2214 fps and 1445 FT./lbs. muzzle energy... :winking:

The 90 grain load has 403 FT./lbs. of energy at 100 yards, almost the same as the 30 grain load does at the muzzle... (30 grain load: 453 FT/lbs muzzle energy)

Is powder becoming so scarce that we are tempted to scale down hunting loads (risking a humane kill) for the sake of economics?

We owe the deer at the very least, a quick kill...

Our actions reflect our sport and we will be judged by not only our peers, but by the non-hunting people as well, so why give them more ammunition to use against us...

Now I wouldn't think twice about using a 30 grain load on fox or squirrels, or even groundhogs in the summer, this would make for a fun afternoon for sure...

 

As I said IMO its probably to light.
However many times when a charge is raised say to 120, 130 what dose that give you? Nothing really and if you take a look at the charts at a give load advancing that load changes things little.
However what you do get is smokers of un burnt powder and patches laying around , to much can be just as bad as to little.
As others here have said, hunting and shooting at the range are two completely different things. You have light, up hill/downhill shots, obstacles and UN known distances. The only sure way is to get out and practice. Learn to judge distances and if that alarm in the back of you head goes off we have to learn not to fall for the I can make it guy sitting on out shoulder.
If there is the slightest doubt then simple pass it up or get closer, after all isn

 

IN MY .40CAL AND 38CAL DEERRIFLES I USE 65GRS FFFG FOR WAY OVER 2200 FPS. WORKED ON OVER A DOZEN OHIO DEER . 38 CAL. IS THE LIMIT IN OHIO ON THE LOW SIDE. AFTER THE BLACK FOOT INDIAN WAR 1830 AND LATER A OHIO RIFLE FOR DEER AND SMALL GAME AND SOCIAL SHOOTING MATCHS EAST OF THE MISS.THE SMALLER CALS. WERE POPULAR,36,38,40,45CAL FOR THE MOST PART,BUT NOT ALLWAYS. MY HUNTING PARTNER HAS SHOT MANY A BIG BUCK WITH HIS .45 CAL RB RIFLE. I HAVE USED .50CAL IN THE PAST SOME 30YEARS AND ITS A GOOD DEER CAL.TOO. oNCE SHOT A 240 RUSSIAN BOAR WITH SAME LOAD 75GRS.FFFG RB BROADSIDE 45YDS,WENT CLEAN THROUGH BOTH LUNGS AND OUT. ONLY RAN30YDS ,PILED UP. SAME WITH SOME NICE 8-PTS AT 75-80YDS,BALL WENT CLEAN THROUGH TAKING OUT BOTH LUNGS AND ONE TIME A LITTLE HIGH HALF THE SPINE TOO AND OUT THE OTHER SIDE.