rodwha
58 Cal.
If a .44 cal brass framed pistol needs reduced loads, ~20-25 grns, can a .36 cal be loaded to that volume without long term damage to the frame such as a Spiller & Burr?
.36 Brass Frame
- Thread starter rodwha
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Due to the solid frame of the Spiller & Burr, I believe you would be just fine with 25-grain charges but be aware that accuracy will most likely suffer.
If you use the revolver mostly for hunting small game or occasional penetration testing, you shouldn't have to worry about unduly battering the frame. If you use it for frequent extended target-shooting and/or plinking sessions with 25-grain loads, then you might have some battering issues sometime down the road - but it will probably be a rather long road. Enjoy! :thumbsup:
If you use the revolver mostly for hunting small game or occasional penetration testing, you shouldn't have to worry about unduly battering the frame. If you use it for frequent extended target-shooting and/or plinking sessions with 25-grain loads, then you might have some battering issues sometime down the road - but it will probably be a rather long road. Enjoy! :thumbsup:
rodwha
58 Cal.
What kind of loads were used in these during the CW?
I'm guessing a max load is ~30 grns?
I'm guessing a max load is ~30 grns?
18-23 grains of pistol powder would be a proper load for a .36 in a revolver.
Any more and you are wasting powder.
Any more and you are wasting powder.
rodwha
58 Cal.
"Any more and you are wasting powder."
Because the accuracy drops off or because you expel unburnt powder?
Because the accuracy drops off or because you expel unburnt powder?
The powder will burn but IMO there's no reason to load more powder.
I often wish folks would realize these cap & ball pistols were never designed to shoot hot loads.
Especially the brass framed guns that were used by the Confederacy.
Dixie Gunworks lists the loads used in a number of original guns in the back of their catalog.
They say the .36 caliber revolvers (steel frame) used 22 grains of 3Fg powder.
That's more than enough to kill a man and that was what these pistols were designed to do.
For what it's worth I use 18-19 grains of 3Fg powder in my brass framed revolvers.
Using more, risks the possibility of slamming the cylinder into the recoil shield and deforming it.
This applies to all of the .36 caliber brass framed revolvers.
I often wish folks would realize these cap & ball pistols were never designed to shoot hot loads.
Especially the brass framed guns that were used by the Confederacy.
Dixie Gunworks lists the loads used in a number of original guns in the back of their catalog.
They say the .36 caliber revolvers (steel frame) used 22 grains of 3Fg powder.
That's more than enough to kill a man and that was what these pistols were designed to do.
For what it's worth I use 18-19 grains of 3Fg powder in my brass framed revolvers.
Using more, risks the possibility of slamming the cylinder into the recoil shield and deforming it.
This applies to all of the .36 caliber brass framed revolvers.
my brass frame pistol is a .44 and I only load 20 grains in it
rodwha
58 Cal.
Though the intent would be primarily (other than paper) for small game, I would want it to be more than sufficient for something as much as a large dog.
Any more powder used would be a waste. If ~20 grns is all it would takes then that's all that's needed. I would want the ball to expand though. I have no experience with what that takes.
The only thing I'm concerned with as far as mucho power is a pistol I may need to rely on if/when tracking a wounded hog, and that is my Old Army.
Any more powder used would be a waste. If ~20 grns is all it would takes then that's all that's needed. I would want the ball to expand though. I have no experience with what that takes.
The only thing I'm concerned with as far as mucho power is a pistol I may need to rely on if/when tracking a wounded hog, and that is my Old Army.
A design like the Spiller & Burr is stronger than an open top like the Colt in that it doesn't put any load on the cylinder arbor when it is fired however it is still subjected to the battering forces as the cylinder impacts the recoil shield on firing. This can deform this area of the frame leading to problems. The brass Spiller & Burrs and Remingtons will probably last a little longer than a Colt but how much longer? The ultimate life of the gun will depend on how much you shot it and how heavy the load you use in it.
I shot a Spiller & Burr in competition for a couple of years though I wasn't too serious about it at the time. If I remember my load was about 18 grains of 3f (at 25 & 50 yards) but could have been a little less. I didn't see any increase in accuracy with a larger load and at a little over 20 grains accuracy began to fall off. I never had any luck with less than 15 grains of 3f in a .36 though I am aware of others who go as low as 12 grains. Over the time I shot the revolver I never noticed it loosening up at all and I'm not at all worried about shooting a brass frame though I am aware it will have a shorter life than a steel frame. A light load with a filler like Cream of Wheat will produce enough smoke that it can partially obscure the target in a rapid fire event and it will produce enough noise that ear protection should be worn. I see no need to max out a C&B revolver, well mabey once or twice just for fun but that's all.
I shot a Spiller & Burr in competition for a couple of years though I wasn't too serious about it at the time. If I remember my load was about 18 grains of 3f (at 25 & 50 yards) but could have been a little less. I didn't see any increase in accuracy with a larger load and at a little over 20 grains accuracy began to fall off. I never had any luck with less than 15 grains of 3f in a .36 though I am aware of others who go as low as 12 grains. Over the time I shot the revolver I never noticed it loosening up at all and I'm not at all worried about shooting a brass frame though I am aware it will have a shorter life than a steel frame. A light load with a filler like Cream of Wheat will produce enough smoke that it can partially obscure the target in a rapid fire event and it will produce enough noise that ear protection should be worn. I see no need to max out a C&B revolver, well mabey once or twice just for fun but that's all.
you are not going to get much expansion with a roundball from a pistol
you are thinking modern again
a .36 inch hole in the lungs and or heart ends life
it doesn't have to smack with a lot of energy, it just needs to penetrate vitals
you are thinking modern again
a .36 inch hole in the lungs and or heart ends life
it doesn't have to smack with a lot of energy, it just needs to penetrate vitals
I have one brass framed colt in .36 and loaded it with 20 grains of Pyrodex P when I first got it. I did get some recoil shield damage but it was relatively minor. Now I keep the round ball loads to 18 or 19 grains and conical loads to 15 grains. With those loads I'm confident that a human or a dog would be in a world of hurt if shot. With a Spiller and Burr I would load 20 grains maybe 21. I'd still check the recoil shield for damage from time to time and ease off the load if I noticed any damage.
Don
Don
We must have been posting at the same time. If I were concerned about protection against a medium size or larger animal I would hang the C&B gun on the wall and go to a .38 or larger type of firearm that we can't discuss here for both stopping power, reliability and convenience.
rodwha
58 Cal.
My understanding was that above 800 fps a ball of lead ought to be able to expand. An expansion is a good thing I believe, though it also requires some additional velocity.
The bigger the hole the better. Even i paper.
The bigger the hole the better. Even i paper.
rodwha
58 Cal.
If I were carrying for a threat, and a cap n ball, I'd carry my Old Army.
I guess I just like things that have multiple purposes. And I figure a .36 cal pistol could be something like a 38 S&W power wise.
I guess I just like things that have multiple purposes. And I figure a .36 cal pistol could be something like a 38 S&W power wise.
I agree and I wouldn't want to count on a .38 S&W to reliably stop a determined animal specially given that the confrontation will probably start at close range and most animals will close the distance so fast a follow up shot may be problematic.
A round ball will expand but not like an elongated bullet as it lacks the mass at the rear to expand the nose. I wouldn't count on RB expansion at pistol velocities to add much to its stopping power.
A round ball will expand but not like an elongated bullet as it lacks the mass at the rear to expand the nose. I wouldn't count on RB expansion at pistol velocities to add much to its stopping power.
rodwha
58 Cal.
I assumed the RB would likely expand more as it was traveling much faster than a conical would be. I suppose I could see the mass having an effect as well.
You can tell if your loading too hot for a Spiller and Burr or a brass framed Remington 58 if after several cylinders of shooting you can take cylinder out and see an imprint of the ratchet star of the cylinder imbedded in the recoil shield of the frame.
I would use 20 to 22 grains maximum
Bob
I would use 20 to 22 grains maximum
Bob
Pete G
76 Cal.
I've never had to defend myself against a stump....just walk away, they won't follow you. Defense against catalogs is a totaly different matter, however. They always seem to get me.Don said:
