3rd Model Dragoon barrel cylinder gap

[montanatim]

Recently purchased this Uberti and of course had to fire it soon after purchase. This firing brought up two questions after reflection and some research.
1. Why is my barrel cylinder gap .033? This leads to a lot of fire forcing it's way between the cylinder and pin and slowing/locking the cylinder from rotation.(gap is not fouled due to spacing and lube. No kind of lube on the pin seems to help)

2. Is there an after market source for a different loading lever with a different latch on it?
(clarification) I was at a gun show and looked at/fondled an original 3rd model. This one had a latch set up like the 1860, very positive, I could do the work and put one on mine but would just as soon buy it already done and slap it on.

I could also tighten my gap but is it gapped this way for a good reason?

 

[denster]

.033 is way too much. With the cylinder held back the gap should measure between .003 and .006.
Is the barrel meeting the frame at the bottom where the two locator pins are at?
If it is and this is a new gun I would return it as it is defective. If that is not possible then the barrel will need to be refit to the frame and possibly the arbor length attended to although Uberti's are noted for having short arbors.
I don't know your skill level but refitting the barrel is best done on a mill.

 

[denster]

One other thing to consider. You will be removing about .028 and setting the barrel back that much will require a new wedge and possibly adjusting the arbor slot.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

1. Be sure that the barrel wedge is in place all the way; this can affect the cylinder gap

 

[denster]

With all due respect the wedge should never be used to set the gap. Once the barrel meets up with the frame it should not be forced further. Unfortunately with Uberti's tendency to have a short arbor you can force things with the wedge, which being an incline plane is a powerful tool, and damage the gun.

 

[Zonie]

Just my opinion but I think a .003-.006 cylinder gap is recommended for smokeless powder but I consider it too small for a black powder revolver.

I consider a .005-.010 gap to be a better value because of the black powder fouling that builds up on the face of the cylinder no matter what the shooter does.
.
The extra clearance will help to keep the revolver from binding up.

 

[denster]

.005 to .010 would certainly work. I like it a bit closer but I wouldn't waste my time working on one that was .010. However I think we can agree .033 is way over the line.

 

[montanatim]

I understand all the replies so far, I just didn't know if this model needed a gap that large for some reason, I suspected not but figured I'd ask.

When I tightened the arbor/cylinder pin on my well shot Uberti 1860 I also lengthened the arbor so it would seat and set the gap to .008. It seems to work well.

Looks like a job ahead of me on this one.

How about #2? Has any body else seen an original with the 1860 style latch?
Other then searching/calling the usual suspects for parts does anybody know off hand where such a loading lever for this dragoon could be found to save me the search?

Thank you all so much.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

Mr. DennisA- Thanks for the info on the wedge! You learn something every day. I have a book on my shelves on BP revolvers by a Dennis Adler; are you the same guy?

 

[M. De Land]

I agree and bit more would hurt nothing.
When they get that much slop in them sometimes the hand will start slipping over the top of the ratchet tooth because of the increased angle with the length.
On my 60 I pulled the alignment pins and filed back the lug, reset the pins, extended the arbor port and made a new wedge.
Works well now .011 but I think I will make and end shake bushing much like the 73 to keep the cylinder face off the barrel a feature I dislike in open top frame guns.
I just made one of tool steel this after noon for the 62.
I will need to reset the gap in this gun to about .010 one of these days.




It will be interesting to see how long the tool steel will resist the flash over from the gap but even when it does cut through the bushing will stay in place because a portion of the front fits up on the full arbor diameter.
Has about the same end shake as does a SAA now,much better in my opinion.
p

 

[M. De Land]

One more point the bushing or tighter cylinder gap addresses is less wear on the ratchet teeth.
The hand has better mechanical advantage the straighter it lifts upward on the ratchet tooth and the tooth profile does not get worn off and rounded at an angle near the top.

 

[denster]

You are welcome for the info. No I am not Dennis Adler although I also have his book.

 

[denster]

Nice job on the bushing. Just curious but on the 60 you set back was there any particular reason you removed the metal from the frame rather than the barrel lug?

 

[M. De Land]

The frame was not changed in any way only the barrel lug shortened and the arbor port was opened up toward the frame a bit to allow the new tool steel wedge(0-1) to even up the cylinder gap top and bottom.
Also made a new trigger out of 0-1 and front blade sight of brass.
It shoots to six o'clock on a standard bull at 25 yards elevation wise but I have to hold to the right side of the hammer nose notch for windage.
I don't like to look at off center front sights or cobbled off center hammer notches.
The gun shoots good but has a few tenths tight spot mid bore that could stand lapping out one of these days.
The muzzle was re=crowned also.
Poor gun right out of the box needed a major overhaul to make it right but was interesting to do.

You can also see the new paddle trigger fit to the 58 made of 0-1 as well.

 

[wulf]

You know, you can drill and tap a hole in the
end of the arbor. Insert a screw and adjust it
to always stop the barrel in the same place against the cylinder. No need for you tool steel
spacer.
Wulf

 

[M. De Land]

Wulf, the spacer/bushing is to keep the cylinder face off the barrel and the hand angle consistent with the ratchet not to set how far back the barrel comes.
The bushing is fit to the adjusted barrel set back as maintained by the wedge and arbor port, it doesn't cause it although it does support it.
The other thing the bushing does in reducing end shake is keep the cylinder back against the recoil shield better at firing so the cylinder doesn't get a run at it after being pushed forward by the hammer blow.
The allen screw in the end of the arbor would be a nice adjustment addition if the arbor does not already bottom out in the barrel port to keep the cylinder gap even top and bottom.

 

[denster]

Sorry I must have misread your first post. Nice looking pair of pistols by the way.

 

[M. De Land]

There are a couple of reasons I can think of for not drilling and tapping the end of the arbor.
1. There very often will be a serial # on the end of the arbor.
2. Removing metal at the end of the arbor window which keeps the barrel from going down range with the projectile.
Probably a better adjustment would be to drill and tap the end of the barrel port hole for an adjustment screw or simply a port diameter steel spacer filed to proper length and dropped in and held captive by the arbor. It would do the same thing without weakening anything.

 

[denster]

I have to agree with not drilling the end of the arbor. For the stated reason and also that it will damage the taper that is in the outer end of the arbor slot that mates with the wedge.
I agree that a washer of the correct thickness in the bottom of the arbor port is the best and easiest solution.

 

[dickydalton]

I have an 1851 that goonsgunworks worked on for me and what he does pretty much is in disagreement with you guys. So far my revolver is a dream and can be shot over 80 rounds without removing the barrel or wiping down anything. I could have shot it more but didn't have the time. It has a close cylinder/barrel gap and an adjustment screw in the arbor. He has a lot of other happy customers and I've never heard a single complaint about one of his reworks. :stir: