.40 For Deer

[BrownBear]

Frankly I'd like to try it. But we're limited to 45 caliber up here.

There's a huge element of "bigger is better" up here in light of our bigger is better bears, but there's some macho underpinning in all that. "I'm a REAL man because I shoot a 479 Super Nosebleeder. You're a wimp if you're only shooting a 249 Mouse Skinner." But frankly I see the Mouse Skinners shooting lots better and making more clean kills. Of course there could be noooooooo relationship to the fact that the Mouse Skinners aren't afraid of their guns. The difference is that they generally shoot more per range session, even if the range sessions are rare.

There's some element of that in muzzleloaders too. I see it in myself in number of shots fired at the range with a 50 and with a 58.

The biggest difference I see between muzzleloaders and modern shooters though is I almost never see the modern shooter without a bench under his hiney and a table under his gun. Same with the occasional muzzleloader shooter at the range. There are guys in both camps that shoot lots while the average guy shoots little. If a sometimes muzzleloader does all his shooting from the bench rather than field positions, he's no better off that the occasional modern shooter welded to the bench. No caliber choice is likely to make much improvement in their field shooting.

The bottom line is that experience and practice make all the difference, and there's no way I see other than caliber to regulate it. Bigger calibers have a better chance of anchoring game with bum shots. We have a regulation here that sort of improves that. To qualify for permits to hunt in the special muzzleloader and archery seasons, guys have to pass a written test AND a shooting test. With muzzleloaders the requirement is 3 shots into 6 inches at 50 yards from any position including the bench rest. And a surprising number of guys can't pass it. They blame it on the muzzleloaders and go back to missing or wounding game with their 479 Nose Bleeders, and good riddance to them.

I'd love to see an option for a different shooting test for anyone wanting to shoot smaller caliber muzzleloaders for deer- say 3 shots into 3" at 50 yards, offhand only. But it ain't gonna happen. They'll just keep the minimum caliber reg in place and hope for the best.

 

[rushlake1]

I recently moved to Alabama and here .40 cal is the minimum legal caliber for deer. So what's y'alls opinion on using a .40 cal for deer. I do have a Hatfield .50 I'm going to use for hogs but,I think it would be nice to have a lighter gun for deer. Anyways give your opinion. Thanks

_______________________________________

I started with a 58 cal. rb.
mid flight it morphed into two 40 cal rb's

I would hunt with a double ball load in 40 cal. not a single.

Not at 60 yards quartering not a 190 lbs. field dressed buck.

2 40 cal. holes through lungs 2 inches apart.

 

[BillinOregon]

Brownie, I like that shooting test requirement, although I have a hard time imagining a dedicated ML hunter couldn't keep 3 in 6 at 50 off the bench -- maybe unless shooting a smoothbore.

 

[hanshi]

In Georgia, and here in Va, where the minimum caliber is .45, the .40 of course isn't legal. The main thing is that the regulations specify only one projectile. True, how would anyone be able to tell? Just thought I'd mention this. :2

 

[BrownBear]

Brownie, I like that shooting test requirement, although I have a hard time imagining a dedicated ML hunter couldn't keep 3 in 6 at 50 off the bench -- maybe unless shooting a smoothbore.

I'm with you, but there it is. I've talked to the instructors about it, and dedicated muzzleloaders to a man, they shake their heads in wonder. But the guys having trouble are the ones taking up muzzleloaders ONLY to be able to hunt yet another season, so at least it weeds out a few weekend warriors while maybe encouraging some of them to actually get better.

 

[Col. Batguano]

...I'd love to see an option for a different shooting test for anyone wanting to shoot smaller caliber muzzleloaders for deer- say 3 shots into 3" at 50 yards, offhand only....

That's not easy to do even with a scoped dedicated precision target rifle and wearing a shooting jacket!

 

[BrownBear]

So be it.

But I figure if a guy has the skill and moxy to use a smaller caliber, there should be a portal for him. IF he can demo the skill and moxy.

 

[nhmoose]

I have taken deer with a .40, so has a nephew. They killed them with a perfect shot. Neither of us are perfect so now I use a 54cal and he uses a 50.

They give a little leeway that the 40 does not. My eyes were better then than they are now. I cannot see an open rear sight to good so now I use my .62 smoothbore with just a front and get closer.

 

[nit wit]

I agree, love my .40.
Nit Wit

 

[robinsroost]

Billy, I have lived in Florida, Tennessee and Indiana and they all have different minimum caliber regulations. In Florida it's .40, in Tennessee it's .36 and in Indiana it's .44. I don't believe Texas has a minimum so a .32 would be legal there. I have a .32 but would not use it for deer unless it was all I had. Still, with a .32 I would aim for the brain. Keep yer powder dry........robin :hmm:

 

[hanshi]

Aim for the brain! I never aim at anything that I might not possess, myself! :idunno:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

...I'd love to see an option for a different shooting test for anyone wanting to shoot smaller caliber muzzleloaders for deer- say 3 shots into 3" at 50 yards, offhand only....

Alas and alack, one can't ensure that such a test = what will happen when actually hunting a deer.

Did the powder gain any moisture from humidity?
Did the hunter with the adjustable measure set it for the proper load?
Did the same hunter load all the powder down the barrel, or did a lot of it spill out at the muzzle?
Did the hunter remember the proper patching cloth, OR was it forgotten and now a torn piece of the hunter's shirt is being used and the hunter is hoping "for the best"?
Can the hunter estimate range to the target, since most folks don't hunt on marked, football fields?
IF the hunter sees a really large deer, will the hunter under estimate the range, and will that error hamper hitting the deer in a vital spot?

:idunno:

LD

 

[BrownBear]

...I'd love to see an option for a different shooting test for anyone wanting to shoot smaller caliber muzzleloaders for deer- say 3 shots into 3" at 50 yards, offhand only....

Alas and alack, one can't ensure that such a test = what will happen when actually hunting a deer.

Did the powder gain any moisture from humidity?
Did the hunter with the adjustable measure set it for the proper load?
Did the same hunter load all the powder down the barrel, or did a lot of it spill out at the muzzle?
Did the hunter remember the proper patching cloth, OR was it forgotten and now a torn piece of the hunter's shirt is being used and the hunter is hoping "for the best"?
Can the hunter estimate range to the target, since most folks don't hunt on marked, football fields?
IF the hunter sees a really large deer, will the hunter under estimate the range, and will that error hamper hitting the deer in a vital spot?

:idunno:

LD

I'd be happy to hear an alternate proposal. Everything you list is in the hands of the shooter.

And that's the point. If the shooter can pull everything together to qualify, they deserve the opportunity. If they can't, they need more time back at the drawing board.

 

[Katahdin]

Know the limits of what you are shooting and YOUR limits. Hunter Safety we use to project a deer up on the wall and ask how far away?? then put antlers on the same deer,and ask the same group and get totally different answers,most could not judge the distance correct in either situation.Take a deer size decoy and place it on a field/in the woods and ask to judge the distance.
Limitations ,it's all about limitations,

 

[Loyalist Dave]

And that's the point. If the shooter can pull everything together to qualify, they deserve the opportunity. If they can't, they need more time back at the drawing board

Ah but the point is, that there really is no correlation to the proposed test and any assurance that what is done in the field will be the same. In fact, it's more likely that what the proposed test measures will not be used in the field (I don't use standing unsupported for deer; I've bagged what I consider a good amount of deer over the past couple of decades).

SO..., It's a spurious idea. The proposed "test" is at a set distance with a specific, arbitrary, artificial posture, applied once. Range estimation isn't even included. I can't speak for others, but my eyes and strength and stamina have changed since I was 14 and first started hunting. :shocked2: I am blessed with very good distance eye sight, and was trained in range estimation, and my personal strength at my present age, makes offhand simply not a proper stance for me when coupled with the rifles that I use to hunt... but then we come to equipment, and that varies too.

Now IF you waved a magic wand, and no hunting of large game or dangerous game, except with a single shot, no magazine rifle, or perhaps no more than two shots, either magazine or double rifle or shotgun, then perhaps we'd see a revolution in marksmanship when it comes to folks harvesting large or dangerous game. The guys would get tired of not bringing home venison, so they'd be forced to become better shots.

LD

 

[Skychief]

Interesting. The subject of range estimation of game.

I've hunted with traditional archery for years. I learned from hunting this "hard way", that I have two yardage estimations. Close enough and too far. Seriously.

It's served me very well while hunting with stick bows AS WELL AS traditional muzzleloading guns.

Many here no doubt use a similar philosophy before taking a shot at game. Though, I believe many "Joe Sixpacks" may not. :hmm:

Best regards, Skychief

 

[Skychief]

I can't speak for others, but my eyes and strength and stamina have changed since I was 14 and first started hunting. :shocked2:

LD [/quote]

I can't speak for you or others,Dave. But, I would guess that your judgement has changed greatly since you were 14 as well. Much like, I would guess, others with years of hunting experience

Best regards, Skychief

 

[wulf]

Excellant point......

Wulf

 

[Danny Ross]

State of Ohio has some of the biggest whitetail deer in the country. The state's minimum caliber for muzzleloader is 38cal and has been for as long as I can remember. So if they believe a 38cal will do it on our whitetails I do believe a 40cal will work. On any legal caliber, it is ALWAYS about shot placement the ball "HAS TO" go through the chest cavity. Pretty much anywhere else, unless you hit the spine, with any caliber it is not going to be pretty and a long tracking job. A lot of center fires will only expand to 40cal, yeah they dump a lot more energy, but they are only putting a 40cal hole through the chest. A 40cal hole is nothing to sneeze at and causes a lot of tissue destruction even if the ball doesn't flatten. DANNY

 

[BigBoreBLR]

many many answers here,

But, the original question is my gun is too heavy and I want a lighter one.

I've never had the opportunity to handle a hatfield rifle. However, that is more or less a commercial gun with a straight barrel.

There are plenty of lighter options without going down in caliber much or at all.

In fact, with commercially made guns, going bigger is going lighter. The outside of the barrel is the same size regardless of caliber. Having a bigger hole in the middle of it weighs less.

Also, you mention your in hog territory. They are to a certain extent dangerous game.

Bring enough gun for the meanest animal where you hunt, not necessarily the biggest.

A 50 cal B weight barrel around 38 inches, or a 13/16th's straight octagon barrel with a 45 bore will likely handle much better than that hatfield might.

I've had deer hit in horrible spots once or twice. I was very glad to have plenty of caliber for that occasion.

Having to drag a bigger gun aways is easier than dragging a dead deer aways. Also, my big gun is always easier to find than a wounded deer shot with a little gun.

In my humble group of blackpowder shooters in the land of rip van winkle here in NY, many love the 45.

I like to be the stranger with the big iron on his hip. A 54.....

Also, bigger the bore, the less the wind moves it. We have horrible B.C. couple with horrible velocity. Something to think about if you hunt in farmer fields, watering hole banks, or larger food plots.......

Also, I originally bought a flintlock so I could hunt in a neighboring state. Check your hunting regs of your neighbor states, and the states of good friends and relatives. You'll want to use these fine arms more and more, in more seasons, more places, and more states...

I hunt with traditional arms and at times in traditional clothing. However, I bring 3 modern items. GPS, flashlight, and a range finder. I regularly practice at various ranges. I pick two for a session. 25,50,75,100, and 125.

I try to do the best I can to ensure an animal does not suffer. Part of what I do is proper equipment selection, knowing the actual range and my limits, and estimation the situation of the shot. Like the deer is alerted, brush, poor visibility etc...

I've came close to quiting both modern archery and firearms hunters because of poor shots. Now I enjoy seeing deer at any range and just waitng till everything lines up good. These Deer can surpise and amaze you, both in good and bad ways.