Travis Gregory
40 Cal.
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What is the weight in grains of a .40cal round ball? Also what would be the max distance for shooting deer with these balls?
.40cal ball weight?
- Thread starter Travis Gregory
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.395 pure lead round ball is 92 grains and a .400 rb is 96 grains. I would want to keep shots under 60 yards.
BPWRL
BPWRL
A .40 caliber rifle usually shoots a .395 or .380 diameter ball.
These weigh 93 or 83 grains respectively.
Although some fairly high velocities can be achieved as is shown in Dixie Gunworks catalogs the light weight balls don't have a lot of energy and loose their velocity fairly quickly.
Dixie does not say what sized roundball they used in their tests but they show a velocity of 2098 FPS from a 32 inch barrel with a 84 grain 3Fg powder charge.
My ballistic calculator says that a .395 diameter ball at that velocity starts out with a energy of 908 foot pounds but at 60 yards it drops to 1231 feet per second and 313 foot pounds.
Even at 40 yards the velocity has dropped to 1465 feet per second with 443 foot pounds of energy.
Based on this in my opinion shots on a deer sized animal should be limited to 40 yards or less with a .40 caliber gun.
These weigh 93 or 83 grains respectively.
Although some fairly high velocities can be achieved as is shown in Dixie Gunworks catalogs the light weight balls don't have a lot of energy and loose their velocity fairly quickly.
Dixie does not say what sized roundball they used in their tests but they show a velocity of 2098 FPS from a 32 inch barrel with a 84 grain 3Fg powder charge.
My ballistic calculator says that a .395 diameter ball at that velocity starts out with a energy of 908 foot pounds but at 60 yards it drops to 1231 feet per second and 313 foot pounds.
Even at 40 yards the velocity has dropped to 1465 feet per second with 443 foot pounds of energy.
Based on this in my opinion shots on a deer sized animal should be limited to 40 yards or less with a .40 caliber gun.
See "Pure Lead Ball Weight"
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showforum.php?fid/131/
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showforum.php?fid/131/
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I hunted with a 36" GM barrel .40 cal. using .400 balls or .395 with 60 gr 3f and tried to keep the shots at 50 -60 yds this is on western Blacktail not the goliath of the deer family but the .40 never let me down except when I dumped one in the river and lost it, my bad, I knew where the deer, the river and myself were all at and our relationship to one another but the neurons were not firing quite right that day,
I've never thought much of the .40cal as a deer caliber, and still don't in a general sense, but this thread has my curiosity up...may have to try one myself with my .40cal GM flint barrel...energy and distance are the issues.tg said:
I have a deer stand location that's 25 steps from a trail crossing a drainage ditch...the shot distance is fixed at that or there's no shot at all...might sit there with the .40cal a couple times this fall...never used more than 40grns 3F in it but 60grns at 25 yds should still be very close to the same POI
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In the book " The Caplock Muzzleloading Rifle"
by Ned Roberts has many stories about his Bear Hunts with his .40 rifle...It seems gents back in the 1880's had confidence in the 40 cal.
by Ned Roberts has many stories about his Bear Hunts with his .40 rifle...It seems gents back in the 1880's had confidence in the 40 cal.
Nope. They just didn't know what a .40 wouldn't do . . . :grin:scalper said:
"Nope. They just didn't know what a .40 wouldn't do ."
well said I have taken deer with .40 on up to .72 the distance and shot placement are the key, the only use for the pages of the ML ballistic books with velocity and ftlb energy I have found is when I must retire for a spell behind a tree, common sense and being able to hold ones water untill the distance is right will kill more deer than all the mathematics in the world.
well said I have taken deer with .40 on up to .72 the distance and shot placement are the key, the only use for the pages of the ML ballistic books with velocity and ftlb energy I have found is when I must retire for a spell behind a tree, common sense and being able to hold ones water untill the distance is right will kill more deer than all the mathematics in the world.
Mr Ned Roberts also said in his book that he killed a bear with his .30 cal muzzleloader. He admitted that he didn't think it was quite fair to shoot a trapped bear behind the ear from just a few feet away.
During most of the small caliber shooting he speaks of he says he was using a "picket bullet", which is a pure lead heavy somewhat modern slug, not a patched roundball.
During most of the small caliber shooting he speaks of he says he was using a "picket bullet", which is a pure lead heavy somewhat modern slug, not a patched roundball.
scalper said:
I have that book and have read it cover to cover several times. I believe his story of the bear hunt involved .44 & .45 caliber double barreled rifles firing 300-350 grain conicals over 70-90 grains of powder, a very different thing from a .40 caliber roundball. Still and all, I'd have no qualms about "bustin' a buck" with a ball of even .36 caliber where legal. As TG said, it's all about shot placement, if in doubt, don't shoot. :grin:
Per Zonie,
"Even at 40 yards the velocity has dropped to 1465 feet per second with 443 foot pounds of energy."
For a very long time, 1000 foot pounds of energy has been the accepted minimum for white tail deer.
Why drop from the accepted 1000 foot pounds of energy to 443 foot pounds and risk losing an animal when the 40 is not really a deer class gun? Some question using a 45 on deer and most push the 50 to 54 for deer size animals.
Am I missing something?
RDE
"Even at 40 yards the velocity has dropped to 1465 feet per second with 443 foot pounds of energy."
For a very long time, 1000 foot pounds of energy has been the accepted minimum for white tail deer.
Why drop from the accepted 1000 foot pounds of energy to 443 foot pounds and risk losing an animal when the 40 is not really a deer class gun? Some question using a 45 on deer and most push the 50 to 54 for deer size animals.
Am I missing something?
RDE
Richard:
Your not really "missing" anything but the "accepted rule" of 1000 foot pounds of energy is not necessarily the amount of energy needed to down a white tail deer.
IMO, it is the kind of thing that is given to modern high power rifle shooters to make up for their lack of ability to make a good shot placement. Even with this rule many deer are shot in the flank or other non-vital places and lost.
I doubt that many would say that a .45 auto, fired at point blank range into the heart/lung area of a white tail would not put down the deer.
A .45 auto has a slight advantage in caliber size over a .40 caliber rifle but its roughly 300 foot pounds of energy is less than the .40's 443.
It all comes down to recognizing the inherent weakness of the .40 caliber and the need to make a good shot into the vitals of the animal.
That and the dropping velocity of the .40 caliber roundball is why I suggested that its hunting range be limited to 40 yards.
Your not really "missing" anything but the "accepted rule" of 1000 foot pounds of energy is not necessarily the amount of energy needed to down a white tail deer.
IMO, it is the kind of thing that is given to modern high power rifle shooters to make up for their lack of ability to make a good shot placement. Even with this rule many deer are shot in the flank or other non-vital places and lost.
I doubt that many would say that a .45 auto, fired at point blank range into the heart/lung area of a white tail would not put down the deer.
A .45 auto has a slight advantage in caliber size over a .40 caliber rifle but its roughly 300 foot pounds of energy is less than the .40's 443.
It all comes down to recognizing the inherent weakness of the .40 caliber and the need to make a good shot into the vitals of the animal.
That and the dropping velocity of the .40 caliber roundball is why I suggested that its hunting range be limited to 40 yards.
I hunted deer for quite a few years with a 40 caliber flintlock. When they work, they work well enough that you begin to believe it's enough gun. Then one day you watch a deer run over 2 ridges, the blood trail stops and you stand there scratching your head wondering what happened.
I hunt with a 54 now.
The 40 will work if you keep your shots under about 50-60 yards...until it doesn't.
I hunt with a 54 now.
The 40 will work if you keep your shots under about 50-60 yards...until it doesn't.
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Hmmm....Zonie, you ar correct....I guess I forgot the part bout the pickett bullet... :thumbsup:
And Ridge...frome one West Virginian to another..
You are right too!! :thumbsup:
And Ridge...frome one West Virginian to another..
You are right too!! :thumbsup:
"For a very long time, 1000 foot pounds of energy has been the accepted minimum for white tail deer
by whom has this been accepted, this forumla is developed for centerfires and modern bullets, if it is really valid put away your bow and arrows.
"Am I missing something?" yeah but there is no point in going there...
"The 40 will work if you keep your shots under about 50-60 yards...until it doesn't.'
yep and the same can happen with the big bores at the same range..
by whom has this been accepted, this forumla is developed for centerfires and modern bullets, if it is really valid put away your bow and arrows.
"Am I missing something?" yeah but there is no point in going there...
"The 40 will work if you keep your shots under about 50-60 yards...until it doesn't.'
yep and the same can happen with the big bores at the same range..
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TG... You really have yer Thinkin cap on tonite! :thumbsup:
wvbuckbuster
45 Cal.
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I am another Mt'ER who used a .40 to take a deer, once! Chose this caliber based on a friends suggestion for my first custom build. Had shot it plenty at squirrels and such so I took it deer hunting. Was using at the time 55 grs. pyrodex,Hornady .395 The shot was about 75 yards broadsided behind the shoulder. Passed through side to side never touching a rib. There was a good blood trail to follow and the deer went about 150 yds. Just never felt comfortable with it after that. Passed up several shots. Then went to a .50 for several years got a .54 flint last year. Didn't get a shot last year but sure hope to but one of those .54s thru one this year. If the .40 was all I had sure would'nt stay home but definitely would pick my shots.
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