44 cal v 45 call size

[quillgordo]

im sure i can find this answer somewhere bu here goes. Why are hornady round ball 44 cal @ .451 and hornady round ball 45 cal @ .440?

 

[Greasecookie]

The .451 balls are used in "44" caliber cap and ball revolvers and the . 440 balls are used in 45 caliber rifles. The revolvers don't use a patch, in fact the balls need to be a little larger than the chamber throats. The rifle balls are smaller to accommodate for the patch.

 

[Carbon 6]

im sure i can find this answer somewhere bu here goes. Why are hornady round ball 44 cal @ .451 and hornady round ball 45 cal @ .440?

The .44 caliber round balls that measure .451 or .454 are for revolvers. The balls are oversize to seal the cylinder chambers.

45 caliber balls that measure .440 or .445 are for rifles that use a cloth patch to grip the rifling and facilitate easy loading.

 

[bang]

Some disscusions I've read involve the measurement of the cylinder chambers being less enough of the barrel bore that the projectile barely engages riflings and does not make contact with barrel max diameter. After some disscusion with Uberti on this I have decided they do this as a liability issue. The only reasoning they will give is, "They are only reproductions and we've never had any accuracy complaints". Vauge at best as my question was taken as a complaint and not technical. I resent as a technical question but have not received answer as of yet.
Some, primarily competitive shooters ream the cylinder to accept propper ball diameter to achieve full fit through barrel to improve accuracy. I found this issue on my Walker. Even using .454 ball. After making it the cylinder diameter there was a measurement that allowed gap to barrel max by around .001-.0015/.002 to one side. Less enough it wouldn't surprise me if the ball just skipped accross the riflings. Have polished honed cylinder to .451. .454 still rings but now ball fits barrel max and gets full rifling engagement.

 

[Eutycus]

I asked the same question last month on a differant thread. Zonie explained it very well then. Look up ASM revolvers under handguns, about a month ago I think. I looked it up and his post was number 89 on that subject.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Yes, you will find that in some cases the folks shooting vintage rifles that are .44 use .433 bullets with a thin patch with a wad between the patched ball and the powder, the .45 caliber rifles as mentioned above, using a .440 round ball and a patch.

It's odd nomenclature...., cap-n-ball .36 caliber revolvers shoot .375 ball, so the ball is closer to .38..., while modern .38's shoot a .357-.358 bullet....which is closer to a .36 than a .38....while a .36 caliber rifle actually shoots a .350 ball with a patch. It can be confusing.

LD

 

[Eutycus]

I agree odd nomenclature. Why are there not industry standards when it comes to caliber sizes?

 

[Carbon 6]

There are, Caliber is always measured in inches unless you use the metric system.

Caliber refers to the bore diameter in both revolvers and rifles. Not projectile diameter.

 

[Carbon 6]

Rifles are muzzle loaded, revolvers aren't.

 

[Zonie]

im sure i can find this answer somewhere bu here goes. Why are hornady round ball 44 cal @ .451 and hornady round ball 45 cal @ .440?

If you look at the size on the box it tells you what the ball size is. If it says .440 the balls are .440 give or take a thousandth or so in diameter. If it says .451, the balls are .451 plus or minus a thousandth .451.

The reason a .44 caliber cap and ball revolver shoots a .451 diameter ball is because although the bore is .440 the chambers in the tun are close to .450 in diameter.
That larger size is to be close to the size of the rifling in the barrel. Remember, the bore size is what the guns caliber is. The rifling size is always larger than the bore.

With a pure muzzleloader where the ball must be rammed down the bore a patch is used to seal the ball and to engage the rifling grooves.
Because of the patch, the ball should be smaller than the bore size of the barrel to allow for the patch thickness.

The end result of this is the rifle has a .450 diameter bore with the rifling measuring maybe .465.
The .440 diameter ball plus the patch thickness can be rammed down the bore while the patch thickness of say .015 adds to the ball diameter making it large enough to seal off the .465 diameter rifling grooves. (.440 ball plus .015 patch on one side of the ball plus .015 on the other side of the ball =.470 diameter which will seal off the .465 rifling grooves.)

 

[Rifleman1776]

Why are there not industry standards when it comes to caliber sizes?

Because we are playing a history recreation game. Back in the ole history days there were very few 'standards'. A builder/blacksmith did what he did and sizes varied. Today, such things as '45 caliber' or '50 caliber' are only approximate generalities. You must test and learn what your rifle likes. e.g. a '45 caliber' rifle might prefer a .440" ball with thin patching. Or it might prefer a .457" ball with thick patching. Don't sweat the numbers. Do wat yer rifle gun likes.