44 Conicals

[rodwha]

I am looking at getting a Dragoon for use in the event I must track a wounded hog or black bear.
I figure a heavy conical makes more sense than a round ball due to the greater sectional density.
Dixie seems to be the only place I can find a 44 cal conical, but theirs weighs only 180 grns. I have seen weights of 200 and 220, but can't seem to find anyone who sells them.
Am I going to have to learn to mold my own?
I have read that conicals are difficult to load properly. Is this true?

 

[Swtodd]

As far as loading goes, the conicals take up powder room in the cylinder, so the powder charge is reduced. The twist is rather slow (1-32) iirc, so the heavier bullets may not stabilize. That's in addition to having to cast them yourself. Buffalo Bullets claims their 180s are the only commercialy available conicals for cap&ball. Be sure to take someone you can outrun when tracking wounded bear or hogs :grin: .

steve

 

[Don]

The Buffalo bullets do not load straight and therefore do not shoot straight. The 200 grain Lee conicals are a mold your oun proposition. They have a rebated bottom band that helps them load straight. I get good accuracy out of mine.

Don

 

[rodwha]

Hmmmm... So I shall need to learn to make my own conicals.
180 grn bullets seem a bit too light. I'd feel much more comfortable with 200+ grn lead.
Although I read how someone got nearly a passthrough on a deer with a ball.
Where does one buy lead?

 

[scott taylor]

Rodwha- PM me with your adress and I will mail you a handfull to see if they work for you. Some pistols don't have enough cutout in the frame for them to rotate under the rammer. These are from a Lee mould. I like em out of my '60 Army. No need to buy a bunch of stuff that may not work anyway.

Scott

 

[Dphar]

I have used 45 cal Kieth semi-wadcutters from a Lyman mould in a Ruger years ago. There are other options besides dedicated percussion revolver bullets. The other option is to use hardened balls rather than pure lead this will increase penetration if that is a concern.
A good percussion or flint pistol in 54-58 caliber is a good choice too as far as that goes. With 8-9" barrels they can far exceed any power level of the percussion revolvers and are on par with 44 mag.

If I were worried about wounded hogs I would have a model 29 S&W in 4", 5" or 6". Dragoons and Walkers (even worse) are pretty heavy to handle with any speed. Getting crossways of a hog with tushes is not something one wants to do. Once things degrade to using a backup gun getting the job done is the important part.

Dan

 

[rodwha]

GST:
I appreciate the offer!
I have yet to get a cap n ball, but am set on it. I'm looking for as much info as I can before I set my mind on something.
I'm ordering Percussion Pistols And Revolvers: History, Performance and Practical Use by Mike Cumpston and Johnny Bates as was suggested to me.
I'll send you that PM once I come home with a 44 cal something or other!
I noticed that you are in the Texas Hill Country...you far from San Antonio?
How much do they weigh?

 

[rodwha]

Dan:
I was told that 45 cal lead bullets wouldn't work in a cap n ball (which I did not understand why)...
I was also told that the lead had to be virtually pure as well...
Was this info not accurate?
I noticed the 2 moulds on Dixie are either .450 or .456 caliber. I thought that the bullets needed to be a bit over caliber so that it would make a proper seal.

 

[rodwha]

I have a Taurus Tracker 44 Mag (I know, I know...don't like it at all and am considering trading it for this cap n ball) that I had bought specifically for that, but you cannot be armed with a modern firearm during BP season.

 

[Don]

Balls for a .45 cal single shot pistol are designed to be used with a patch therefore they are of .440 diameter. Balls and conicals for a .44 cal revolver are ment to be swaged into the cylinder without a patch and they run .451 to .457 diameter. It is my understanding that hardened lead projectiles fired out of a revolver will wear the bore quickly as the steel used in reproduction revolvers is mild and softer than modern cartridge revolvers. They will also be difficult to load. A hardened ball wrapped in a lubed patch and used in a single shot pistol may pose no problem.

Don

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I have an antique Ideal mold for a 456 wad cutter that weighs only 190 grains that I load in the Ruger Old army. It is so incredibly close to the chamber size that it goes in with just a little effort and shaves off no lead.

I have also loaded 210 grain 45-70 bullets molded from soft lead. As pointed out however, conicals take up powder space. As I recall most of the Walkers are just slightly smaller in chamber and bore size than the Ruger. What about a pure lead 45 Colt wad cutter bullet? If it throws too small, coat a bullet with fine aluminum oxide powder and turn it in the mold to open it up a thousandth or two.

My 456 wad cutter is basically a lead cylinder a half inch long with three grease grooves.

 

[nkbj]

rodwha,
Making your own is real easy but fitting them to your piece is important for accuracy and performance. If you can find a .45 caliber mold that will fit the frame configuration and not take up too much powder space, you can generally make it a winner. The best way that I have found is to run the back majority of the bullet into a sizer die that just lets the back end drop into the cylinder and leaves the front ring big enough to shear off on the mouth of the chamber.

These here are a RCBS mold that just works like a short maxi.

 

[rodwha]

How hard can the lead be? I had been told near pure was necessary, but according to an article online (http://www.n-ssa.org/NORTHWEST/Casting Bullets.htm) much harder can be used. But I'm not certain that it is.
Can wheel weights be used in a cap n ball?

 

[Leatherbark]

There is someone on Auction Arms selling 44 Conicals of 200 grain. Looks like a Lee Conical. Sells them by the hundred. Look in the black powder auctions...........Mayb E bay also

Bob

 

[rodwha]

Thanks for the info!

 

[Leatherbark]

There is an article in the latest issue of "Backwoodsman" magazine that shows someone using Lee "REAL" bullets by reducing the diameter of the lower bands. The author shows how he does it. You can find the Lee REALs online also. They make them in 45 in the 200 grain variety.

One thing you must know is that your sights may be way off with a heavier bullet.

Bob

 

[cowpoke1955]

Check out F&M Reloading: http://www.fmreloading.com/Merchan...de=90382&Category_Code=Lee+Black+Powder+Molds . $16.58 for any of Lee's double cavity molds with handles. Casting will save you a lot of money in a long run. While you're at it, pick up molds for any other muzzleloader you have. I get my lead fro a recycle center. I normallt look for sheet lead. I have also, bought lead off of eBay. Look for engots made from sheet lead or lead pipes. Wheel weights are too hard for muzzleloaders, but works fine in modern handguns. Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[nkbj]

How hard can the lead be? I had been told near pure was necessary, but according to an article online (http://www.n-ssa.org/NORTHWEST/Casting Bullets.htm) much harder can be used. But I'm not certain that it is.
Can wheel weights be used in a cap n ball?

Soft lead is best for shearing off on the chamber mouth and with it's ability to spread out, filling the rifling.
Wheel weights will drive up your pressures to no good result. And, you really can make the soft steel in the wedge slot deform with hard bullets and too much powder.

 

[Zonie]

How hard can the lead be? I had been told near pure was necessary...

The loading levers on all of the cap & ball pistols are fairly weak and shearing off 1/4"-3/8" of lead from the outside of a conical takes a lot of force.

IMO, using anything but pure lead for a bullet is just asking for problems with their loading lever unless they have a separate loading press for loading the cylinder with it out of the gun.

 

[nkbj]

Yeah, that's way too much to be shearing off. Just a little ring at the front of the slug is all you need.