I am new to this site but looking for information. I am a fan of the sidelock muzzleloaders. I have a T/C .45 Hawken but due to in-lines and many southern states now allowing single shot rifles the .45 is dying quickly. Buffalo Bullet from my knowledge is dead and Hornady Great Plains is no longer available. Only thing I can find is the Maxi-ball. I have harvested deer with all of the previous mentioned bullets and the buffalo does great. I am looking for a solution to this ordeal. I have two of the 325 grain .45 Flat Base Hollow Point bullets and a box of the 275 grain Hollow Base Hollow Point buffalo bullets. I also have some great plains but where may I find a mold to begin casting such bullets. Or how or who can I send one of these bullets off to make a mold so I may keep a steady diet of ammo for my Hawken. Would anyone have any suggestions? I am starting into casting and loading for my 45 acp... and ready to expand my self supply of bullets. "
.45 buffalo bullet or great plains?
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If I was you I'd give this one a crack first up. Lee REAL 250gn .45.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1201/1/LEE-90392
They are a proven projectile especially in the T/C Hawken and it is such a small outlay there is no huge downside if they don't work. Use an over powder wad to maximise accuracy.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1201/1/LEE-90392
They are a proven projectile especially in the T/C Hawken and it is such a small outlay there is no huge downside if they don't work. Use an over powder wad to maximise accuracy.
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bubba15301
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if you are hunting deer ,why not use a round ball?
Good Bubba, my thought exactly. Lots of folks fall for the 'extra power' sales crapolla from the bullet making companies. While a conical projectile carries more energy at the same speed as a round ball, but it doesn't matter if the bullet whistles through carrying it's extra energy down range. Balls stay in the animals body about half the time, from my own hunting experience, expand and transfer all their energy into the tissue. If you need to need to penetrate to an large predator's brain, then by all means use them. For the deer species of North America, a well placed ball will do the trick.
I would use a round ball for deer. If your choice is still a bullet, I would use the improved Minie.
I used REAL bullets before, and had to pound them with a mallet to get the rifling started.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1201/1/LEE-90467
I used REAL bullets before, and had to pound them with a mallet to get the rifling started.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1201/1/LEE-90467
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Patocazador
54 Cal.
I've had very good results with both Maxi-balls and REALs. My .45 T/C Patriot pistol prefers 200 gr REALs to everything else I've tried.
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meaux308 said:
Hi Meaux.
The maxis, REALs or minies will probably end up working for you. Just out of curiosity, will a .451 diameter enter to bore? There are some interesting possibilities with cast lead, paper patches...
jamesthomas
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That's what I would use also. A lot of folks have put deer in the freezer with a .45 cal. roundball. Plus it uses a whole lot less lead when casting your own. The only down side I could see if your taking 100+ yard shots at your deer. Then the maxi or REAL bullet would be your choice.
Billnpatti
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As others have said, you don't NEED a conical bullet to take deer with a .45 cal. rifle. A patched round ball has just as much killing power as a conical. But, if it is a conical that you want, the Lee R.E.A.L. bullet mold will give you an excellent conical bullet. If I were you, I would just work up a good accurate load using a patched round ball and go harvest some deer.
A good starting point would, in my estimation, be a .440 round ball, some washed 100% cotton drill that measures about .015 for your patches. For a lube, I think any of the natural oils such as olive oil, Jojoba oil, Ballistol, etc will work quite well. Use only a small amount of lube on your patches. You want them to feel almost dry. They give better accuracy that way. For your starting powder charge, I recommend starting with about 65 grains of 3f black powder and working up in 5 grains increments until you find the most accurate charge. Once you have worked this out and can keep all of your shots on a paper plate at 100 yards, you are good to go for hunting deer. Put one of those balls in a deer's boiler room and he is down for the count. I don't care what anyone may tell you or what you may have read, a muzzlelaoding rifle with open sights is good out to a maximum of 100 yards. After that, the ball has lost too much velocity to guarantee a clean kill and open sights at ranges greater than 100 yards are just not that accurate. People may tell of killing deer at ranges much greater than 100 yards with a muzzleloader but I say :bull:. They may have just been awfully lucky, they may not be able to accurately judge distance or they may just be full of :bull: An ethical hunter who hunts with a muzzleloader keeps his shots under 100 yards. If you want to shoot farther than that, use a modern cartridge gun with a nice 3 to 9 scope.
BTW, go to www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com and order a copy of Dutch's muzzleloading accuracy systems. Carefully follow what he tells you and you will be amazed at what you can do with that rifle of yours. It is only $20 and is a fantastic investment in how to make your rifle cut those Xs. Not only do you get a copy of his accuracy system but he will send you his email address and his actual phone number so you can email or call him to work out any accuracy problems that you may encounter. Such a deal!!
Whatever you decide, good luck and good hunting. :hatsoff:
A good starting point would, in my estimation, be a .440 round ball, some washed 100% cotton drill that measures about .015 for your patches. For a lube, I think any of the natural oils such as olive oil, Jojoba oil, Ballistol, etc will work quite well. Use only a small amount of lube on your patches. You want them to feel almost dry. They give better accuracy that way. For your starting powder charge, I recommend starting with about 65 grains of 3f black powder and working up in 5 grains increments until you find the most accurate charge. Once you have worked this out and can keep all of your shots on a paper plate at 100 yards, you are good to go for hunting deer. Put one of those balls in a deer's boiler room and he is down for the count. I don't care what anyone may tell you or what you may have read, a muzzlelaoding rifle with open sights is good out to a maximum of 100 yards. After that, the ball has lost too much velocity to guarantee a clean kill and open sights at ranges greater than 100 yards are just not that accurate. People may tell of killing deer at ranges much greater than 100 yards with a muzzleloader but I say :bull:. They may have just been awfully lucky, they may not be able to accurately judge distance or they may just be full of :bull: An ethical hunter who hunts with a muzzleloader keeps his shots under 100 yards. If you want to shoot farther than that, use a modern cartridge gun with a nice 3 to 9 scope.
BTW, go to www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com and order a copy of Dutch's muzzleloading accuracy systems. Carefully follow what he tells you and you will be amazed at what you can do with that rifle of yours. It is only $20 and is a fantastic investment in how to make your rifle cut those Xs. Not only do you get a copy of his accuracy system but he will send you his email address and his actual phone number so you can email or call him to work out any accuracy problems that you may encounter. Such a deal!!
Whatever you decide, good luck and good hunting. :hatsoff:
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Idaho Ron
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I am sorry that you can't ask a question and get a answer. You got to understand that the guys that shoot round ball try to run over every thread that is put up about conicals. They seem to not understand how to stay on a subject. They don't seem to know how to just pass to a different thread but they can't.
Conicals for 45's with a slow twist like yours is going to be tough to find. Your best bet is a Lee REAL bullet. Make sure you use an over powder wad. I paper patch RCBS 11mm rifle bullets. I have a 1-30 twist barrel so I can stabilize them.
You might be able like GC said use a pistol bullet and paper patch them. Your going to need to size them to get them down the barrel.
Good luck with your conical search. And BTW conicals have a LOT more power than PRB. Anyone that tells you different doesn't know which end of the barrel the powder goes down. Ron
Conicals for 45's with a slow twist like yours is going to be tough to find. Your best bet is a Lee REAL bullet. Make sure you use an over powder wad. I paper patch RCBS 11mm rifle bullets. I have a 1-30 twist barrel so I can stabilize them.
You might be able like GC said use a pistol bullet and paper patch them. Your going to need to size them to get them down the barrel.
Good luck with your conical search. And BTW conicals have a LOT more power than PRB. Anyone that tells you different doesn't know which end of the barrel the powder goes down. Ron
Thank you and it did seem to get a little off subject I know maxi is a fine projectile and the Lee Real resembles it so much. I know the round ball is a great projectile but even with the small deer of the south a .45 will not shoot through and through on a broadside shot the deer will be dead but can run several hundred yards with no blood trail (Ive seen this and helped with a cur to track it). The maxi may expand some but like apples to oranges, blondes to brunettes, Its my preference and appreciate everybody's response. I am very comfortable with the buffalo and 85gr FFG at 100yds and know at 150 I just hold the bead a little higher and it will still make the steel gong. Yes I had a guy show me my rifle is more accurate with the round ball he even builds his own rifles, shoots competition, and hunts with them. But I doubt he uses round balls for hunting in fact I know he don't. A well place shot with a small caliber is better then a grazing shot with a larger caliber (except .54 cal and above) look at what happened with a flesh wound in the civil war. But if I wanted to go fast and small I could go with neck shots and my .22 WMR (its less lead) but its not legal or ethical but we all know a .22 mag will drop a deer.
Thank you for your support. Guess I will go to a Lee Real since kind find what I truly want.
Thank you for your support. Guess I will go to a Lee Real since kind find what I truly want.
You could get one of these and keep everybody happy! :grin: :grin:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1201/1/LEE-90405
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1201/1/LEE-90405
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meaux308 said:
Did a patched round ball ever occur to you?
They have shot through deer in broadside lung shots to at least 120 yards.
Bullets are grossly overrated by the slick paper press as a projectile for hunting with a traditional ML. Nor is there any documentation to show they were ever used to any extent for hunting. For reasons I have repeated stated here.
Dan
One of the most accurate conicals I have found for my .45 caliber rifles is the RCBS .455 Webley hollow base 260 gr pistol bullet. I size them to .450 and lube with bees wax/jojoba oil mixed stiff or SPG bullet lube. Great accuracy and penetration.
I hunt with a TC Hawkin once in awhile. With conicals it is most accurate with a Maxi ball and 85 grains of 3f. It's been years since I had a RB in it so I don't remember which was more accurate.(prob close to 35 years). I will use a PRB or maxi in a bigger caliber. Larry
I have killed with both and they both died quick, its a choice, no need to argue. I did shoot both a 6pt bull herd bull and a three point buck at 180 yds each. The bull with a conical out of a .54 I knew the gun well and estimated hold over apparently quite well as he went 30 yds and fell over running in place a few seconds. Conical broke up and did not pass through but took out upper heart and lungs. Doubt I'd try it again (was a youngster then on last evening of the hunt). The deer was killed with an unmentionable trotting. 180 yds aimed at neck hit way back in guts but scraped liver enough for a very poor blood trail and ended up tracking him 4.9 miles (per gps, so a lot more with the zig zag) and had to sneak up behind him and finish him off. Not a wise shot, will NEVER do it again. I now use mostly PRB and under 100yds. Never lost one with BP yet. Did hit a nice 4pt with a 6mm at 40 yds and bleed like a faucet for 100 yds, pieces of rib recovered but no deer. For what is worth, develop load YOUR happy with and respect the game (like I did not) and you will do well. Opinions aside your pulling the trigger, shoot what your happy shooting.
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Yo Meaux.
Tennessee Bullet Molds makes push through sizers threaded for use in a reloading press, basically they are sizers for minies and are popular with rifled musket shooters. I have one for the .40 bore re-barreled Great Plains Rifle and another for .595 diameter to remedy the Lee .600 round ball mold that casts from .603 to about .608. And I'm fixing to get a couple for the rebored to .58 TC Hawken and for rebored to .54 TC Renegade.
If you want to have a die to precisely adjust the diameter of various projectiles (bare lead and paper patched) to fit your bore then a sizer might be worth looking at. Also, from past discussions I know that Idaho Ron uses sizers from Lee and that he is getting very good pre-alignment in the sizers. Alignment in the Tennessee Bullet Molds sizers may be found wanting depending upon the diameter and the design of the projectile.
By the way, will a .451 sized bullet fit in the bore of your rifle?
Tennessee Bullet Molds makes push through sizers threaded for use in a reloading press, basically they are sizers for minies and are popular with rifled musket shooters. I have one for the .40 bore re-barreled Great Plains Rifle and another for .595 diameter to remedy the Lee .600 round ball mold that casts from .603 to about .608. And I'm fixing to get a couple for the rebored to .58 TC Hawken and for rebored to .54 TC Renegade.
If you want to have a die to precisely adjust the diameter of various projectiles (bare lead and paper patched) to fit your bore then a sizer might be worth looking at. Also, from past discussions I know that Idaho Ron uses sizers from Lee and that he is getting very good pre-alignment in the sizers. Alignment in the Tennessee Bullet Molds sizers may be found wanting depending upon the diameter and the design of the projectile.
By the way, will a .451 sized bullet fit in the bore of your rifle?
This fall I shot a 4 pt buck on a special primitive muzzleloader hunt here in Indiana. Side hammer, black powder or bp sub, PRB or conical and open sights, no optics were the rules.
The shot was 50 yards broadside using my T/C Hawken.45, PRB and 55grains of 3fff. The deer ran at the shot and I couldnt see were it went because of the trees and smoke. Deer went 60 yards or so and I had very little blood trail to follow, just small drops.
When I butchered the buck the holes in and out were .45 diameter and broke ribs in both holes but showed no evidence of flattening out. The ball was a Speer.
I didnt like the damage results at all and decided then to change the load to Maxi-ball. Maybe not what is needed but makes me more confident went i pull the trigger.
The shot was 50 yards broadside using my T/C Hawken.45, PRB and 55grains of 3fff. The deer ran at the shot and I couldnt see were it went because of the trees and smoke. Deer went 60 yards or so and I had very little blood trail to follow, just small drops.
When I butchered the buck the holes in and out were .45 diameter and broke ribs in both holes but showed no evidence of flattening out. The ball was a Speer.
I didnt like the damage results at all and decided then to change the load to Maxi-ball. Maybe not what is needed but makes me more confident went i pull the trigger.
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