.45 Cal Shot Placement

[Yellowhouse]

I've hunted with a traditional ML for nearly 30 years but my mainstay is a 50 cal Halfstock that I built long ago. I know its capabilities with a patched round ball and 75 gr of FFg.

However, the first rifle I built is a .45 Cal Southern Mtn flinter that has been carried to the deer woods a few times but never experienced the opportunity to be fired at a deer.

With the .45 round ball and 65 gr FFFg I'm a little apprehensive at shots on a 175 lb buck in rut (they are a different species than doe)that sometime takes some extra punch. I'm getting old in the chops and really don't want or need to be trailing down a deer for a great distance.

I nearly always take the traditional right behind the shoulder shot but with the .45 I'm wondering if a ball through the shoulders or a high neck shot (near the head" might be better.

What say you? Don't have many more years left to enjoy this and want the flinter to be more of my hunting memories.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Lungs - just above the heart. Heart if you are close and have an angle that will avoid the upper leg bone. NEVER try for the head with a muzzleloader (or any firearm IMHO). Go for the high percentage shot and perforate the vitals.

Muzzleloaders lack the shock needed for a sure kill in the neck. The .45 is no barn-burner at best and keeping to 75 yard double-lung shots would be my practice.

 

[Wes/Tex]

What Stumpy said! I always went for the heart if possible, if not than the lungs. 65 grains of FFFg will do the job if you do yours. Shot placement beats impact every time. IF your rifle will stay accurate with a heavier charge, great, but make sure you can call your shot. Good luck.

 

[roundball]

Just some additional / related information...in the past there was a thread asking if a .50cal PRB was big enough for a high shoulder shot to drop a deer in its tracks.
There was a lot of conjecture against the idea because while the classic “anchor shot” with high powered center fire rifles was indeed the high shoulder shot that we all know, it was said the PRB did not have sufficient shock power to drop a deer as it required 'hydrostatic shock'.

Since getting into hunting with PRBs, I followed the same course I had while bow hunting, which was the time proven heart shot”¦take out the pump and the deer is down in sight...have done it for years with several different calibers.
But the claims that high shoulder shots were a poor choice with PRBs made me decide to dedicate the rest of a particular season to them exclusively, got some extra Doe tags and tested various calibers for the hands on experience.

Doe #1
Was an experimental .45cal double PRB load I’d already committed to test with my normal heart shot, I did, she crashed in sight maybe 15yds away”¦the so called loaded-for-bear load worked as expected, .45cal cleaned and back in its case.

Then I committed to high shoulder shot testing with normal hunting PRB loads for as long as my season and deer sightings would allow”¦was fortunate to get 5 more chances:

Doe #2 - .62cal, high shoulder shot, dropped dead in her tracks
Doe #3 - .62cal, high shoulder shot, dropped dead in her tracks
Doe #4 - .58cal, high shoulder shot, dropped dead in her tracks
Doe #5 - .54cal, high shoulder shot, dropped dead in her tracks
Doe #6 - .50cal, high shoulder shot, dropped dead in her tracks

The original question was about a .50cal”¦and not only did my .50cal Dickert drop the Doe in its tracks with the high shoulder shot, it was a complete pass-through.
What I learned was that a high shoulder shot with a PRB did indeed produce instant results, each and every time, with the .50/.54/.58/.62 calibers I personally tested.

As a result I personally believe the .45cal would do equally as well assuming accurate shot placement with a full power big game powder charge, which I always happen to prefer over using low / mid-range charges.

THE HIGH SHOULDER PRB SHOT PLACEMENT I USED
Through the scapula (shoulder blade) and through the vertebrae that dips / curves down between the shoulder blades.



EXAMPLES OF THE SHOT PLACEMENT LOCATION I USED

 

[Yellowhouse]

Yep, thats the shot I was thinking about over the traditional behind shoulder.

 

[Katahdin]

Behind the shoulder ,what I refer to as the Elbow?? is a high percentage shot,,Lots of vitals in that area so if your off just a hair it still works..I was taught and teach to never shoot for the neck,to high a risk shot,,few vitals greater chance to wound than kill clean.Looking over the other posting on the deer anatomy and the broad side will better explain it...

 

[roundball]

Yep, thats the shot I was thinking about over the traditional behind shoulder.

Right, and after taking several deer that way, the high shoulder shot is now my primary. Having been on the planet for some time now, I too no longer have any interest in blood trailing a deer after dark through the colored red leaves of fall...and dropping them in their tracks means a shorter drag too.
:wink:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Roundball's documented results has me rethinking taking shoulder shots in the future, especially as Roundball in previous postings has provided a good idea of why it's so successful at dropping deer. So far I am a tried and true broadside/lungs shooter. (I try not to shoot the heart...it's delicious.) You're .440 ball should do fine.

LD

 

[Yellowhouse]

Having been on the planet for some time now, I too no longer have any interest in blood trailing a deer after dark through the colored red leaves of fall...and dropping them in their tracks means a shorter drag too.
:wink:

:thumbsup:

 

[Eric Krewson]

This shot placement gets it done in short order. I shot this buck with my .44 shooting a .445 ball and 70gr of 3F. He went 50yards after the shot which is normal for deer I shoot with the .44. When I shoot one with my .54 their legs usually come out from under them on the spot.

 

[Katahdin]

Proof,, if you put the shot where it should be,,the trailing is kept to a mininum,,Centered just above the "elbow" D.R.T.nice shooting,

 

[Spikebuck]

If you're worried about shooting a big buck with a .45 go down the list of topics in this hunting forum and look at "My little man shoots a buck" by Lady-Hawk. :thumbsup:

As far as placement, I'm in the "lungs" camp...the higher yellow dot in Stumpkiller's picture. While that may not drop them in their tracks, I personally believe it provides more room for error. Clearly Roundball's experience shows that the "high shoulder" shot drops them, so if you're sure you can hit that spot, go for it. I'm not as good as many shooters with no rest, or just on the side of a tree or something, so I want margin-of-error in my hunting shot.

 

[Patocazador]

If a deer is quartering toward me, I have always aimed for the shoulder-neck junction. They go down right there. I have used it for 40+ years .. even with a bow. It's just habit.

 

[roundball]

Yes, take out the vertebrae and it's lights out, DRT.

 

[Rifleman1776]

That looks like one of my shots. I have always been uncomfortable with the heart shot. It just seems too low for me. I have always raised up a mite and, most of my ded deer have the heart separated from the aorta and other big blood vessels. The deer usually take what I call 'two reaction' leaps and drop. Have never trailed one.
The only deer I have taken that was not hit as described was one I hit in the spine. Downhill shot, bad judgement on my part. It went down but was very much alive, just paralyzed. I had to finish with a second cous 'd gras shot.
As for neck shots, I have never tried. Seems to me there is too much in the neck that would not be instantly fatal if hit. My recent experience with the found dead deer I recovered the antlers from (with permission from the authorities) was a neck shot. The ml season is currently on in Arkansas so I'm surmising it was an ml that shot this deer. Since the antlers were wrapped with rope, I'm also surmising the hunter had it down but the deer was not dead and ran off to die later where I found it. I will never try a neck shot with anything less than a decapitation caliber. e.g. 338 win. mag. :wink:

 

[FishDFly]

Neck shots, most folks do not use them as they are not capable of proper placement. Aim small, miss small.

A neck shot properly placed can do one of the below:

1. Spinal cord is broken.

2. Aorta is shattered, huge blood loss.

3. Tracheal airway is shattered and the deer is
not capable of breathing.

4. Hydraulic blood shock to the nervous system,
brain.

I have participated in culling of whitetail deer, the high neck shot was preferred shot to remove deer. Effective and no loss of meat in the body cavity.

Seems folks get hung up on the "double lung", it is the easiest shot to make, but they do run, trailing then starts.

Seems funny, for critters who have teeth and claws and seek payback, the double lung is not the shot of choice.

We get to chose how and where we shoot, Saturday will be my 53rd opening morning to shoot deer, you do learn something in a few years.

"My recent experience with the found dead deer I recovered the antlers from (with permission from the authorities) was a neck shot. The ml season is currently on in Arkansas so I'm surmising it was an ml that shot this deer. Since the antlers were wrapped with rope, I'm also surmising the hunter had it down but the deer was not dead and ran off to die later where I found it. I will never try a neck shot with anything less than a decapitation caliber. e.g. 338 win. mag."

Many years ago I was on a deer lease and the standard way of cleaning a deer was to hoist it into a tree from the antlers and gut it. The lady did not have the strength to pull it into the tree. She came to the camp seeking assistance. When we arrived the deer's front feet were off the ground and the deer was not a happy camper, it was shot in the body, but very much alive.

 

[Spikebuck]

If a deer is quartering toward me, I have always aimed for the shoulder-neck junction. They go down right there. I have used it for 40+ years .. even with a bow. It's just habit.

Yep, that's the shot if they are quartering toward you. I killed one with a 50 cal muzzleloader that way and three with bow (off the ground and very close...won't take a quartering into shot with bow from an elevated position.)

I will take quartering away shots and just aim for the opposite front leg which sometimes means hitting them pretty deep on the inbound side if they are steeply quartering. I would love to hear about .45's with PRB's in this scenario where you have to drive it pretty much the length of the body. Having no experience with them, but hearing lots of positives on this forum (and being that's the next caliber in my build lineup), I'm wondering about the flexibility of shooting options on large game (exceeding 250 pounds and up live weight.) Currently I'm thinking one has to be a bit more cautious with the "diminutive" .440 ball. Since the OP was asking about shot placement with a .45, I hope this "extension" of the topic isn't out of line.

 

[BrownBear]

I would love to hear about .45's with PRB's in this scenario where you have to drive it pretty much the length of the body.

Never owned or hunted with a 45, but one of my hunting pard uses nothing else. He kills as much as the rest of us with our bigger calibers, and he never needs a second shot.

He's got the perfect take on those shots. He calls it restraint. He just doesn't take them, whether they might work or not.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Seems funny, for critters who have teeth and claws and seek payback, the double lung is not the shot of choice.

Creatures with teeth and claws take out the legs before chomping on the neck and then the prey slowly suffocates. Starting with the neck is a good way to get your vulnerable entrails kicked out.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/TZ4QO9bC-7I[/youtube]

Cheetah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZ4QO9bC-7I

Wolf https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqkBX2oGWOw

The aorta is the main artery of the heart that arches back towards the liver (ascending aorta). The cartoid is the major artery in the neck.

I avoid the neck because it is prone to rapid movements. The head even twitchier. The torso much less so. Creatures pivot around the center of mass right about at the diaphragm.

Being a traditional bowhunter I like center lung as a deer can also drop fast in preparing for a jump, and that aim point puts a shot in good area even if they do. A hair of hang fire on a drizzly day is all too common and it pays to use as much insurance as you can.

In fact, I have had very good luck with m/l rifles and smoothbores hunting with them as I would a bow. Get close and take out the lungs. Sometimes I'm a bit low and hit the heart.

With a high power rifle the shock of a neck hit will drop the animal. With a .45 round ball there is much, much less energy released.

 

[stinkyfeet]

Same as any caliber, or arrow tight behind shoulder mid body through the lungs.