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.45 CAL

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RUPPB

32 Cal.
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
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Hello to all, I am a newbie to muzzleloading. I have been reading alot in the last two years or so... But my question to everyone is: how well would standard .45cal slugs (say from a 45/70) preform in a hawkins or kentucky style rifle? I had a .54 cal in the past, but never had the patience for it till now. i like the looks of those two rifles... opinions please?? thanks
brian
 
Either of those rifles with a 1:48 twist would work well with conical bullets. I would mic any bullet for a cartridge before using it in a muzzleloader. ML's are designed to take specific diameter bullets. You also need to consider weight and length of the bullet. One that is too heavy may create too much pressure in a particular barrel and one that is too long may not stableize well. There are plenty of commercially manufactured conical bullets available specifically for ML's. If you plan on hunting larger game with a .45 than conicals are the way to go. Balls would be suitable for coyotes, small pigs and woodchucks but light for deer. I've been wanting to get a .45 also, more for targets than anything else but it would be handy for coyotes and woodchucks.

Don
 
The .45/70 uses a bullet of .458 diameter, so it could be tough to seat in the average .45 caliber muzzleloader's barrel. There are plenty of muzzleloader specific bullets available so that is probably the way to go.
 
I agree with Don about the factory produced slugs. Also, these slugs (45-70) are intended for cartridges and not made of pure lead. A .45 cal. ball (.440) will take anything from squirrels to deer, and I have seen plenty of deer taken with a .45. Just vary the powder charge. Of course, this will change your point of impact, so you have to remember where each one hits. There are several conicals for a .45. Two of the most common ones are the T/C Maxi Balls and the Lee REAL bullets. I have a Pedersoli Blue Ridge flinter and it's a lot of fun to shoot and is very accurate. It's also cheaper to shoot than my .54's. IMO, it's the best all around caliber :thumbsup: .
 
first to use the type of bullets you are talking about you will need a false muzzle, so they will start stright. i have used .38-40 bullets in my .40 cal rifle with good results.

you may try the .44 conical for a rem. revolver to see if they will work.
 
I toyed with that idea early in my ML. I ended up using a .45 hard cast pistol bullet in a sabot from my .54 cal. 1:48" twist. Worked pretty well but I prefer less hassle and use Maxi-balls now. I cast my own.

One way you might still be able to do it is if you have a short piece of the barrel. I had a new barrel ordered with a couple of inches more than I wanted. It was cut 2" shorter and the that piece was turned into a bullet sizer. I can now resize factory hard cast, or pure in the sizer so the lands and grooves all match up.
 
O.K. that's gives me a direction to go in. All I have is a cabela's for reference on things for now. I hope to have more in the future. There is one product made by "power belt bullets". I have seen them sold locally, not sure if anyone here uses them.
 
lyman did make a 45 cal minie mold, but it takes a fast twist to stabilize it. been using one for years in a sidelock with a 1 in 22 twist.

TTC
 
Just an FYI Powerbelts is considered a :nono: for discussion here. I've got a Lee 405 grn .45 mould designed for 45/70.

I'm probably going to size them for my fast twist .45 to see how they do.
 
If you are going to try to match a modern bullet of great weight, such as you have suggested with the 405 .45-70 lead bullet, It would need to be sized down the bore diameter, or smaller and then paper patched, and you really need a faster twist barrel to get the best accuracy. The standard ROT for the .45-70 is 1:22 ". But, target barrels often come in 1:18, or 1:16" ROT. The faster twist barrels can shoot the heavier, and longer .45 cal. bullets, up to 550 grains.

There is nothing wrong with using your existing barrel with RB to take deer. I have seen deer killed out to 100 yards with these guns. The point blank range for the .45, zeroed either at 100 or 110 yards, lets you hit between 3 inches high at 60 yds, and 3 inches low at 130 yds. You, nor I, can hold better than 3 inches using open sights at 100 yds., especially shooting off-hand. You can work out lighter loads to hit POA at 25 or 50 yards for varmints, squirrels and coyote. Assuming you have enough barrel length to burn it, try 60-65 grains of FFFg powder behind a .440 PRB with a .015" pillow ticking patch for the long range shooting. Use a powder charge down around 35 grains of FFFg for the short yardage shooting. Its more than fast enough to kill any small game, and it will dump a coyote out to 70 yards right quick, too. Go for the head shots when you can.

Reminder: You are not shooting a modern bullet. Round Balls work a totally different way. You are starting out with a ball that is as big in diameter as most .30 caliber and smaller bullets expand to. It kills by expanding quickly to 60 caliber and larger in small game, that don't have bones to expand those bullets. The primary wound channel leaves a huge hole compared to modern bullets, and the animals are killed by shock, and internal hemorrhaging that causes a sudden drop in blood pressure, and unconsciousness from lack of oxygen to the brain. Modern bullets are designed to kill by shock alone. Its accurate placement of a RB that will kill for you in a ML rifle. Worry less about velocity, and more about accurate ball placement and you will take home a lot of game. Inside 50 yards, where most deer are actually shot, a .45 may pass complete through both sides of a deer on a broadside shot. You don't need any conical to kill deer, if you are shooting open sights, and are a good enough hunter to put yourself within 100 yards or less of your quarry. The recoil of conicals can make a flincher out of a potentially good shot. Too many people think you have to send a conical out a MLer at the same kind of velocities that they get with their .25-.30 caliber deer rifles. That just is not the fact with MLers.
 
Thanks Paul. We took all that into consideration when the barrel was being considered. The barrel I had made was a fast twist that matched the Sharps twist and 30" long. I had the barrel made 32" long and the last 2" was cut to make a sizer. I've tested it out as a sizer with hardcast 405 bullets and it works very well. I'll be casing in pure lead so it should be even easier to size down. The accuracy has shown promise with other conicals. I just need to cast a bunch and develop a load.
 
I have been shooting the 459-405-HB for about a year now out of my 45. I am pouring them out of soft lead. I size them down to .451 then I paper patch them. After I paper patch them I run them through a .454 sizer and then again through the .451 this is what they look like.
Paper_patch_384.jpg


My barrel is a 32" Green Mountain 1-18 twist. The gun is a TC Renegade with Lyman 57 Peep and a Lee Shavers Globe front sight with a level. This is what the gun looks like.
2250458_bennit_mountain_mag_2_5.jpg



This group is one of my better ones but this gun shoot 1.5" at 100 yards almost every time. The load is 90 gr of pyrodex P. Ron

11-24-07--_45-70_small.jpg
 
Very nice! My only concern will be the fit after the first couple of shots and how the fouling might prevent me from loading. My bullets will be pre-sized to an exact fit. I plan on a spit patch followed by a dry between shots.

If my method doesn't work out I'm going to try yours.

P2190117.jpg


Here is the sizer made from the barrel. The bullets are hard cast pistol bullets in .45. I had them as a test. Seems to work pretty well.
 
I can shoot up to 10 shots with out cleaning when I use soft lead and paper patch. I can see what you are after. You will have to align your bullets perfectly. one thing you are going to want to try is a felt wad between the powder and bullet. In this picture below I cleaned between groups. The last one was a 6 shot group. Ron

11-30-07_458_rifle_test.jpg
 
Yep I was thinking felt but if that didn't work I might try veg. fiber wad with deer tallow/olive oil lube between it and the bullet.

Nice target by the way! :thumbsup:
 
I have seen dozens of guys with their first muzzle loader trying to figure out why they can get the new rifle to shoot. Some guns will shoot powerbelts, but way too many won't. A guy would do way better to start off with: round balls, conicals or even sabots.
 
I dry patch betwixt shots ala Dutch Schultz method and get tighter groups even with PRB. Now Ive been shooting REAL slugs w/good results. this is .50 cal.
 
Well sorry to mention the :nono: word, i will be mindfull in the future.... I was thinking more on the lines of useing round ball for shooting. I am a bit stubborn that way. People here (my hometown area that is) have to many opinions of ML , and i would rather learn from yall than the people up here. I am thinking of picking up the kentucky style rifle. It is still in the kit form, so that will be enjoyable in itself. Time to do some research in the arkives here.. P.S. i am a terrible speller :grin:
 
RB is a great! You'll find many RB shooters here who can squeak out some incredible accuracy from the RB. You'll probably want a slower twist no faster than 1:48". :thumbsup:
 
One day of research and i am learnin, could never get my 54 cal to shoot straight, over 15 yards and it would stray 6 ft!!! i was using way too much powder.greenhorn?? yea i guess i am! :hmm:
 
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