45 Caliber Target Rifle

[cannonball1]

I have been thinking about making another side hammer 45 Caliber, 1 in 18" twist, one inch flats 36" long barrel. I plan on spending $1000.00 or less for the barrel only. Who would be the very best barrel maker.

 

[.36Rooster]

A 1 in 18" twist would be wonderful for keeping powder charges tiny and light without losing accuracy with roundballs, along with providing for use with mild to moderate loads for conicals. Sounds like the perfect combination rifle for small game, target, and even large game; but I am not aware of any manufactured barrels, or even complete rifles with that fast of a rate of twist. In fact, the fastest rate of twist on a rifle that I can think of off hand was exhibited by the tc cherokee, coming in with a twist half as slow as your specifics, (and their fast twist had the market cornered on accuracy with light squirrel loads for years)...

There may be 1:18" rifle barrels out there, but my guess is that you will struggle finding many barrels with a twist that does more than one turn in 48". Typically, it is pistol barrels that exhibit these faster twists in the 1:20"s. And this is due to necessity as the incomplete burning of the powder in shorter barrels lightens the effect of a given powder load requiring greater torque (provided by increasing the rate of twist) to start that ball spinning due to its lesser velocity. That is also why longer barreled rifles give greater velocity AND get by with much slower rates of twist than do pistols and short rifles. Anything from 1:48 to 1:66 is more than adequate for roundball accuracy, although your loads for conicals at 1:66" would need to be incredibly hot (I would choose the 1:48 if you intend to use conicals often).

You really should be fine with anything greater than 1:48 if using roundballs. Any twist faster would require loads that are much lighter, and also leave you with a much steeper arc of trajectory... which, as a target rifle, that would be very undesirable since target and match rifles need to shoot flat...in addition, you would never be able to use hot loads accurately in the rifle as they would strip lead straight from the rifling's grip before any spin is imparted. Thats a lot of turns (2 of them) to accelerate a ball through over a 36" run. A hot load in that barrel would have an effect on your roundball similar to mashing the accelerater on a corvette has on its wheels: that is, torque and lack of opposing traction (a burnout).

 

[52Bore]

Badger - but I don’t believe Ernie isn’t making them anymore.
Original Whitworth, Henry, Rigby, Gibbs target rifles, nearly all were 1.2” at breech and tapered to 0.9” at the muzzle. 36”

 

[cannonball1]

I just got through with sporting rifle with a 1 in 18 twist barrel from GM Barrel company. Want something better. This is not a roundball gun. It is for long distance shooting. 500+ grain bullet. I have also made a couple of fast twist gun from another barrel company. This needs to be best of the best in 18" twist.

 

[longcruise]

Rice or Oregon would probably be able to do it.

Did you convert a GM cartridge barrel blank on the last one?

 

[cannonball1]

Yes I converted the GM and have two of the oregon barrel with a fast twist. The first Oregon I was very happy with, the second not so much. Rice might be a possibility. Isn't there some barrel company out there that stands as an elite like on modern guns.

 

[Drago]

Try Bobby Hoyt

 

[Bad Karma]

Badger - but I don’t believe Ernie isn’t making them anymore.
Original Whitworth, Henry, Rigby, Gibbs target rifles, nearly all were 1.2” at breech and tapered to 0.9” at the muzzle. 36”

I bought a couple .400/.408” Badger barrels off of eBay. The price seemed high at the time but today, not so much.
OP, if building today Rice is likely your best bet.

 

[Nobade]

I'd say Kreiger. Pretty sure he doesn't make any octagon barrels, but his stuff is second to none and he makes barrels with the dimensions you want.

 

[Bad Karma]

I just got through with sporting rifle with a 1 in 18 twist barrel from GM Barrel company. Want something better. This is not a roundball gun. It is for long distance shooting. 500+ grain bullet. I have also made a couple of fast twist gun from another barrel company. This needs to be best of the best in 18" twist.

You might check in with Doc White… never know what he might have laying around.

 

[cannonball1]

Kreiger is a possibility. I looked at their stock before and could have purchased a blank. I have a machinist who can put the flats on the barrel. They don't have anything in stock now. I would have to custom order to get a 32" barrel. I might check with them. Any other suggestions. Thanks.

 

[nkbj]

Cannonball, t'were me I'd design the rifling to suit what I'd shoot.

PS,
I'm presently in that process of deciding on and designing the next rifle. Think I'll use a left hand TC New Englander as the base to start with on this one. The New Englander has good points and bad points but being a left handed step child on a wrong brained planet, well, one does what one can.
Polygonal rifling with rounded points is what I want.

 

[PK]

I just ordered a .45 cal, 1:18 twist ,1” barrel from Rice Barrel for the same purpose. Mine is 32”, 5-6 month wait.

 

[fleener]

Kreiger is who I was going to recommend. Glad you are thinking outside the box on the round vs oct. barrels. Dont let that stop you.

A few years ago I wanted the best .22 barrel for a low wall rifle I was building. Had Lilja make me a barrel to the original Winchester octagon specs. Cost me a bit, but I have never regretted it.

I just looked at Lilja's website and it looks like they make .458 barrels.

Based on what you want, and your budget, I would give them a close look. I know of no one that has bought or is using a .458 barrel from them, just for full disclosure.

Keep me posted if you will. You have my interest.

Good luck.

Fleener

 

[fleener]

Badger was sold years ago, and they are not making barrels for us anymore. I have a few of them and love them.

RIce might make a great barrel. I just dont know enough about them and their track record for what you are wanting to do to say pro or con. I know that Rod England is having Rice cut .458 barrels for his long range Alex Henry kits. RIce is using gun barrel grade steel for these barrels to handle the pressure.

Fleener

 

[cannonball1]

Fleener, At one time I was looking at Badger. That wouldn't work now. This gives me a couple of directions and I am getting close to that age where I will not be able or have the desire to make target muzzleloaders. I don't do it for money, just give it to the kids. I would like to make one, best of the best gun which would probably include checkering, carving and engraving the gun to make it fancy. This gives me a direction. Any suggestions on a style bearing in mind I am not a machinist and would have to pay to have steel turned?
Thanks

 

[M. De Land]

I have been thinking about making another side hammer 45 Caliber, 1 in 18" twist, one inch flats 36" long barrel. I plan on spending $1000.00 or less for the barrel only. Who would be the very best barrel maker.

I have a couple of cartridge black powder rifles I've made with Green Mtn barrels in .45 cal. One with 18 pitch and the other with 16. They are both of Chrome Molly 4140 steel. Pretty tight twist for a cloth, patch ball, shooting muzzle loading barrel but works fine with Paper patching and conicals.
Gain twist would be better probably for this scenario.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I just got through with sporting rifle with a 1 in 18 twist barrel from GM Barrel company. Want something better. This is not a roundball gun. It is for long distance shooting. 500+ grain bullet. I have also made a couple of fast twist gun from another barrel company. This needs to be best of the best in 18" twist.

On the button post. Those fast twists are not suitable for patched roundball. Good for slug gun matches and some hunting situations. But, few clubs have slug gun matches and hunting options would be limited. In other words, I believe such a rifle would be primarily a safe queen.

 

[Wildrangeringreen]

I just got through with sporting rifle with a 1 in 18 twist barrel from GM Barrel company. Want something better. This is not a roundball gun. It is for long distance shooting. 500+ grain bullet. I have also made a couple of fast twist gun from another barrel company. This needs to be best of the best in 18" twist.

I get mine from The Gun Works out in OR. Pretty much everything they make is a custom job, and I've found them to be really good, you just might have to wait a second if they don't have the size of stock you need on hand. $225-300

Another option would be a McGowan or Preferred Barrel Blanks barrel.

McGowan will do a custom profile barrel, even octagon.

PBB generally is considered to make good barrels as well, and will do a custom profile

Both will run somewhere around $400-500 for a custom profile (or buy a standard profile and repro file it yourself, like I've done in the past).

BTW, faster twists work fine with a round ball, you just have to be more particular with patching (for close range trigger time and such) long range muzzle loading is a great pursuit!

 

[fleener]

I think it is personal preference on which rifle to build. Alex Henry? Rigby? Gibbs? or Other?

I would consider parts from Rod England with perhaps a custom barrel. Rods are AH style rifles.

Fleener