45. or 50. cal for whitetails

[DavyCrockett]

I'm considering purchasing my first flintlock and was looking at the Pedersoli Blue Ridge from Cabela's as my first Muzzleloader. The most important thing for me is that it can take down a deal successfully and that even with a not quite perfect shot take down a deer and not just wound it. I'm not implying I miss and gut shot them, but I just would prefer that if I didn't hit them dead center lungs that it would still have the power to take them down. I've heard of people hunting with the 45. cal and being plenty successful, but I'd like opinions for someone who will just be getting into muzzleloaders. (I want it for next season and will hopefully be able to get it soon so I'd have 8-9 months to practice with it, that's what I mean by just getting into it.) Also, which is better for target shooting, I'm probably not about to get into any competitions or anything haha, but I'd like it to be more cost efficient if its a big difference between either one of them. Are either of the calibers difficult to find ammo/parts/etc...? http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-Blue-Ridge-Flintlock-Rifles/1608552.uts
This is the Rifle I'm looking at, I've heard good things about it. I don't have the money to go and get a $1200 rifle. I ask for any opinions on the rifle, what caliber to choose, and any other advice anyone might have when choosing a rifle or getting into Flintlock hunting. Thanks in advance.

 

[satx78247]

ImVho, either caliber is perfectly suitable for WT.
(My first cousin has taken at least two WT every year since 1976 with his .40 caliber TN Pore Boy flinter, using PRB. - I don't think that he's chased any WT more than 200M in all that time. Btw, I should also admit that he is a MUCH better shot than I will ever be.)

yours, satx

 

[William O.]

Well, first and foremost, nothing makes up for a poorly placed shot. Not caliber, speed or composition of the bullet; nothing.

I would start out by asking the question-
"Which of your choices fits you best?" Which rifle that you are considering buying has the right amount of pull? Do you know your length of pull? Which of these rifles allows you to shoulder it with your eyes closed and upon opening them the sights are lined up, or nearly so? It all comes down to how accurate can you be and at what range with your ultimate choice in rifle?

If the conditions in which you will be hunting in offer shots longer than 100 yards and you can consistently place the RB on target at 100 yards then I would go with the 50 caliber. If the conditions that you will be hunting in will not often offer shots of more than 100 yards and for the most part the brush is dense, thick and you are good at getting close to your game then I'd go with the .45.

For myself, aging eyes have made me self impose a limit of no more than 80 yards using a muzzle loader unless I have a steady rest, bench, limb or stand in which to place my rifle on. If so and I have my .54, which has a set of Lyman buckhorn sights (not period correct at all) then if offered a perfect shot then taking a shot at 100 yards would be considered. However, both my 50 calibers have traditional, PC sights and I would simply not take a chance on wounding an animal so 80 yards would be it. That is not because of the caliber of the RB though, only the type of sights comes into play.

As you can see, the variables that I take into consideration aren't the same as the ones you will be concerned with so any recommendations as to the best caliber for shooting deer have to judged accordingly by you and you alone.

Lastly, even though I have ML's of the same caliber doesn't mean that they are equally accurate with the same amount of powder. My .50 flintlock likes 65 grains of 3f while my .50 caplock may need more or less to achieve the same accuracy. I haven't yet worked up a load for it yet. My .54 on the other hand, is most accurate using 85 grains of 2f. The trajectory and energy of that compared to the .50 being pushed by 65 grains out of my flintlock is very different.

I hope this helps and doesn't confuse, so if I can clarify my point, please feel free to reply or send me a PM.

Okay, I took a look at the rifle you are considering. Both the .45 and .50 have 1:48 twist rates, which in my opinion and experience is a good thing because it's very forgiving and allows good accuracy with a wide range of powder charges. The .54 has a 1:65 ROT which isn't finicky but might take a beginner a little longer to find the sweet spot. Since you're not considering it then it's a moot point anyway. Is there any way that you can shoulder that model before buying it? Do you know what your length of pull is or how to measure it?

 

[BigBoreBLR]

If I only owned 1 muzzleloader it would be a 50 cal.

I shoot a lot, so I am building a 45 cal. Balls are 20% cheaper to buy, and casting goes further.

A lb of powder goes farther with a 45 too.

But, when it comes time to hunt, I will be mostly using my 54 cal.

I like the 45 because it's the smallest caliber you can hunt a deer with. I like to go with a little bit more.

However, all that aside. This 45 I am building will take a deer atleast once.

Also, many places do not sell much traditional muzzleloading supplies. If you travel a few hours for a hunt and forget your roundballs, your may be out of luck with a 45 cal at most sporting goods stores. You have a chance with 50 cal. With my 54 cal, forget it not even worth looking in the store.

Also, a 45 cal barrel will likely be heavier. They usually use the same Outside diameter barrel size. If this is the case, I would only consider buying the 45 cal if it had a more slender barrel on the outside compared to the 50 cal.

 

[DavyCrockett]

Thank you very much for your advice, exactly what I was hoping for. I've just found out my Length of Pull is right at 14 inches maybe very slightly under, the rifle I'm looking at has a length of pull of 14 inches I've got no way to shoulder the model before I purchase it, that I currently know of but I'll keep a lookout. And what I meant by not a perfect shot is not an absolutely perfect shot, missing my perfect shot by an inch or so. I'm very good at getting close to game, my average shot when using my bow is 20 yards and I've passed up does I'm killing for management at 30+ yards just because I know I can get closer and take less chance of merely wounding one. "All living things small and large are God's creatures and have dignity and a spark of the divine" (I just really like that quote and felt it applies here) Would the 50. cal be an inconvenience at short distance? And why would the 45. be better than the 50. for heavy brush? what affect does the combination of higher caliber and brush have? I assume you're not talking about shooting through it, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that if that is what you're talking about, but that seems unlikely to me. I wouldn't be taking any shots over probably 50-60 yards just for the sake of being extra careful. However, like fools sulphur said, could the 45. cal ammo be harder to find? I'm all for things being easy to get haha If there's anything else I should consider please, let me know. Thank you very much for the advice you've already given me.

 

[DavyCrockett]

Thanks very much for your advice, I'll keep this into consideration. I'd have to say I'm personally leaning towards the 50. right now, but I'm also waiting to hear back from some of you guys.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Let me just toss out a few thoughts about your choice. You're .50 caliber is what we use for a into to shooting course given twice a year here in Texas, Excepting the fact we use a percussion, the rifle is subjected to +/- 100 kids a day over a 3 day period twice a year and has been rocking along for about 10 years now...no problems if we keep it clean. Our operation is kind of "down & dirty" since time is a premium for us. Each kid gets two trys with a .490" ball and a .015" pre-lubed patch. No time for niceties...we load one time and tell them they're doing all the rest...and they do. One of us watches each one to be sure everything is according to Hoyle and we load 60 grains of FFFg which hits the iron boar @ 100 yard with authority. One little dear even clipped his 'boy part" off with a shot and got razzed pretty hard by her pals till we complemented her and told funny jokes..she went off laughing and bragging. The point here is that the Blue Ridge is a good, solid work-a-day rifle...along with one TC Greyhawk gets the job done for us. No idea if the flint version is any more difficult but all locks can be tinkered with if they don't do there best work. We treat ours real hard...slosh water through it at lunch time and end of day. If it was going to have problems it'd done so long ago. .50 will do the job very well for deer sized game. :thumbsup:

 

[daniel collums]

i'm looking to get a blue ridge myself. i'm getting the .54 percussion. i have .45,50, and .54 cal. rifles and take deer and hogs with all 3. i make my own round balls and buy my powder in bulk. if you make the perfect shot with any of these cal's. they will do the job. the reason i like .54 over the .50 or .45 is the .54 has a flatter trajectory and more ball mass which makes a bigger hole which helps out on the larger boars. not saying the other calibers are lesser in any way because i have done very well with all i just like the .54 calibers hard hitting power. with that said if i was buying a new rifle and had to pick a .45 or .50 i would get the .50

 

[Clovis]

If you are a successful bow hunter, either the .45 or .50 would be fine. You will likely be able to double your range of successful shots from the ranges you use for bow kills.

I have the blue ridge in .45 and I like it, but it is probably a little heavier than a .50 would be. It was certainly longer than any of the thompson center rifles I had started shooting and since they were all in caplock getting used to the party going on next to my face when I pulled the flints trigger took a while.

Oh, and try using just one powder for the charge and the pan (likely 3f) as I have a mostly unused can of 4f I may never use.

Do some research on the pros and cons of the blue ridge. Some like the rifles and some don't. Take plenty of time, you may have some before next deer season. Good luck and have fun.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

My 45 cal spits out round ball at 2033fps, which will knock down and deer around here.

Id buy a $600 kit, way before Id buy any production rifle, especially a flinter.

 

[William O.]

Then I think you've chosen the right rifle and it should fit you very well. As has been mentioned, walking into a store to find .45 RB might be problematic and if they carry any muzzle loading supplies they will have .50 RB, but you can always make your own (casting) or order what you need from any one of several suppliers. Since you are used to getting close and the conditions where you hunt are such that 60 yard shots are the farthest that you might take, then either the .45 or .50 will serve you well. As has also been stated, if both barrels are the same width across the flats, then the 50 caliber bore will be lighter as the barrel walls will be slightly thinner. This is one reason I recommend folks get the .54 Great Plains Rifle (GPR) when considering buying one. The barrel is the same but with a .50 bore it makes the barrel heavier and thus the rifle itself more nose heavy. It doesn't have anything to do with how it performs on game, just how it carries in the field and when shouldered.
Now, the Blue Ridge in .45 may or may not have a smaller barrel compared to the 50 caliber. The .50 and .54 may use the same size barrel and then then a different barrel for the .45, you'll just have to ask.

Oh, and no, I didn't want to imply that you'd be shooting through the brush. "Brush busting" has been proven to be a myth and hitting even a tiny branch will alter the course of any bullet and you may wound or all together miss if that happens. I just meant that if the conditions in which you're hunting don't normally allow a longer shot and you're used to getting closer then the .45 would be a good choice.

 

[silly goose]

I believe the 45 has a smaller barrel than the 50. With the special cabelas is running on the 45 right now, I would buy that one in a heartbeat. I don't even need one and I'm tempted at that price.

 

[erock1980]

I hope this isn't off the topic, but I think its worth mentioning. One thing I noticed is some of the words you use in your first posted question; "take down a deer" and "have enough power". Its been my experience hunting and observing others that muzzleloaders don't really work like that. You aren't utilizing hydrostatic shock, dramatic projectile expansion etc...those factors simply do not appear to be present in muzzleloader kills. I confess I know little of the science behind it, but I've personally seen deer absorb a lot of punishment and clot non-fatal wounds very quickly. You said you do a lot of bowhunting so I think you will understand what I mean. Based on my own experience with both I've found the wounding/killing to be similar in some ways between bow and muzzleloader hunting. Also, your definition of a "not quite perfect shot" may differ from others. To me, that means a shot that isn't fatal within 60 seconds but will be fatal within an hour or so. Think along the lines of your experience with bowhunting for what that means to you exactly.
As far as your actual question regarding 45 vs. 50, I think others more knowledgable than me have covered that already.

 

[DavyCrockett]

Yeah I understand what you mean. I'm trying to convey what I meant by not a perfect shot, and maybe it would be better stated this way, if I shot a deer and it didn't quickly take the deer down with the 45.cal and I had the exact same shot placement with a 50.cal instead, would it quickly take the deer down? it's hard to word it just right,but I think this one makes sense, it does to me but that's only cause I wrote it haha. Oh just thought of a good one, I've got lots of broadheads for my bow, but I've got some I don't like, cause it seems if my shot isn't the most perfect double lunger or heart shot, they just never go down. But some of my broadheads I can get a mediocre lung shot and them go down 50 yards away, so I always try to use my good broadheads obviously with a better chance of not wounding a deer. Would the difference of the 45. to 50. be that big of a difference, or would most any shot that will take them down with the 50. also take them down fairly quickly with the 45.? Hopefully this clears up my question. It's a hard question cause I'm trying NOT to give you guys the impression I have no idea what i'm doing and am hoping that I can take reckless shots just cause I've got a bigger caliber, so I'm trying to word it very particularly.

 

[silly goose]

Hmmm, would I say the .50 has a larger margin of error? I think you would have to, mass counts. Do I think you or a deer can tell the difference with a shot to the boiler room...... No.

 

[William O.]

All things considered, if the .45 barrel is lighter, then I would recommend getting that one. The sale price is pretty good and if it had another inch in the LOP then I'd even buy one. Buy a box of round ball from Track of the Wolf and then think about getting a melting pot and mold to cast your own. I also highly recommend the paper from Dutch Schoultz for ultimate accuracy and reliability.

 

[DavyCrockett]

I've decided on the 50. cal, and am going to be ordering it probably later tonight just to do a small amount of final research on it.
One thing I'm not entirely sure of it what all I need to get to go with it. Obviously the ammo, it says it doesn't come with a cleaning head for the ram rod, so I'd one of those, I'd buy some flints, fff powder seems to be the general consensus of the best for this caliber, but does anyone have any recommendations at to what brand of powder to use? Should I use real black powder, or a substitute? I don't feel using a substitute is really against tradition, just better for the gun from what I hear. But what brand would be best for this?
This is all it says it comes with? does anyone see anything I haven't mentioned I need to get?

"The muzzle of this rifle is left in the white; it is not
blued like the rest of the barrel.
No cleaning jag is included.
Flint and leather pad are included.
Total length: 55 inches Length of pull: 14 inches
Total weight: 7.25 - 7.75 lbs (depends on caliber)
Barrel is not drilled & tapped for scope base mounting.
Barrel shape: Octagon barrel has blued finish.
Barrel width (across flats): 13/16 (.45) 7/8 in. (.50 & .54)
Barrel length: 39 ins
Rifling twist rate: 1 turn in 48 ins. (.54 is 1 in 66)
Barrel is pinned to stock; not a hooked breech.
Sights: Drift adjustable rear semi-buckhorn; front blade.
Stock material: European walnut stock; with cheekpiece for
right handed shooter.
Polished brass furniture & butt plate.
Adjustable double set triggers; blued finish.
Leaf-spring powered lock, with fly in tumbler.
Accessories in package: instructions & Pedersoli DVD.
Wooden ramrod; brass ends are crimped in place
Ramrod threads: 10 x 32
Ramrod length: 38.5 ins.
Flint size: small
Flashhole insert thread size: 1/4 x 28
Sights: Blued
Lockplate & hammer/cock have color-case hardened finish. "

 

[William O.]

Okay, you'll need a .50 cleaning jag and some cotton flannel for cleaning patches. Buying a yard of this from your local fabric store and cutting it yourself is much cheaper than buying product but it's your call. Any brand of real black powder is good but I buy Goex. Substitutes won't work well in your Clinton's and not at all for your prime. You can use 3f Goex for both prime and main charge but I prefer 4f for my prime. Oh, the jag should have a 10/32 thread to fit your ramrod but I highly recommend getting a range rod with a free spinning T handle. Should be about 4 inches longer than your ramrod.

 

[erock1980]

this question could be answered in a billion different ways by everybody here so i'll answer it in really general terms, buy or make these essential items:

any type of cleaning tip, threaded for 10/32 like your ramrod
real blackpowder, at least have 3f
cleaning patches
patches for shooting, made from an all natural, tight weave material
lead balls, sized .490 or .495
good quality flints, and something to knapp them with if necessary, and something to wrap them with in the lock
screwdriver(s) that fit the various lock screws well
ball starter
touchhole pick
patch lube of your choice
whatever your preferred gun oil or rust preventative is of course

a range rod is optional but helps out a lot when you have a problem, especially when you are starting out. By range rod I mean a separate ramrod of sturdier material than hickory, they come with a variety of handles.

For when you're actually hunting, something to block the touchhole is good too when its wet out.

Of course you'll need something to carry all this stuff whether its a pouch or pocket, and for powder a horn or flask.

Good luck, enjoy

ps. Its feb. so you are in good shape for fall deer hunting if you get started now. For extra practice and guidance find some local black powder shoots and take part and talk to people. Keep an open mind while taking advice with a grain of salt.

 

[erock1980]

forgot to add: powder measure. most people start with something adjustable before making or buying one with a fixed charge

good luck!