.451 Gibbs Mid-Range groups

[paulab]

Greetings....These are 10 shot groups fired this summer from my Pedersoli Gibbs .451 percussion target rifle. It is equipped with a wind gauge aperture front sight and soule vernier rear sight. The load for all 4 groups was 90 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 F, a 530 grain Postell style grease groove bullet, and RWS caps. The bore was carefully and thououghly wiped between shots. The reason some of the groups were fired from X-sticks is because that is the firing position used in N.R.A. black powder target rifle Mid-Range prone matches. Group 1 was fired in dead calm conditions during load developement and is the best 200 yd. group that this rifle has ever fired. Don't ask me to do it again. Normal group size usually averages around 4 inches if the nut behind the butt does his part and it isn't too windy. Groups 2 and 3 were shot at a silhouette range in a light fishtailing tailwind. No sight adjustments were made once firing started since I had lots of time to wait for the same wind condition for each shot. Group 4 was shot on a sight-in/practice day before a 2 day Mid-range match. The wind was blowing from 12:00-2:00 at about 5-15 M.P.H. The sights were adjusted as needed between shots. Once again I had all the time I needed to fire this group. In a B.P. Target Rifle Mid-Range prone match however, you are allowed 4 sighting shots plus 10 shots for score in 30 minutes or 4 sighters and 15 shots for score in 45 minutes depending on the match format. It sounds rather easy but I can assure you that with all the getting up and down, loading and cleaning, reading the wind, sight adjusting etc. you dont have ANY time to spare! cheers Paul

Link

Link
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/paulbehe/DSC_0086.jpg
http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz94/paulbehe/DSC_0090.jpg

 

[PGTMG]

Very nice. :thumbsup: Did it take you long to find your load for this rifle?

 

[paulab]

PGTMG....2 years! It shot pretty good right from the get-go but it was the load-tweaking that took so long. Better sights, different wads, bullets, bullet diameters, powder brand and charge weight... lots of range time too. Change one variable..go to the range. Change another, go to the range etc. [all the while keeping the little lady happy too!] LOVED IT! paul

 

[Anonym]

Nice rifle and nice shooting! Long range shooting is quite a challenge, no matter what you shoot, but that's impressive for a black powder rifle! Congrats!

 

[broadarrow]

Hi Paulab, congratulations, excellent result, nice rifle too, Regards, Peter B.

 

[Walks with fire]

Nice shooting Paul. Thanks for sharing the pics and post with us. :thumbsup:

 

[runnin lead]

92 1 X @ 600 FANTASTIC
What range did you shoot that at?
Pulled Creedmore targets for Mon shootig his Gibbs
@ Raton a few years ago, it was impressive !
I never did get to actualy see anyone shoot one at a match ,I wold think that the going from shooting prone to reloading & back to shooting prone must be a chineese fire drill, when the guys with the front stuffers were shooting I was always in the pits,we were always the last to finnish pulling that year, they do give the frontstuffers a little more time,but not much.
**** Trenk had one at the Coor's range one year
for people to try out , didn't shoot it , figured if I did I would have to buy one.

 

[nkbj]

Very nice sir!

 

[paulab]

Runnin Lead....The 600 yd. target was shot at Cadillac Michigan the last weekend of Sept. this year. "Chinese fire drill" is about as close as you can come to describing a muzzleloader shooting in a timed match basically designed for b.p. ctg. shooters. I practiced getting 14 shots fired in the required 30 minutes at my local gun club. Once I got the bugs ironed out I was confident I could finish a real match with a minute or two to spare. The only problem with Mid/long range shooting is that most people don't have access to a 500-1000 yd. range without doing some serious driving. Heck, most clubs don't even have a 200 yard range. Long range shooting would undoubtedly be more popular if more people could do it. cheers Paul

 

[ResearchPress]

The 7th MLAIC World Long Range Championships took place at Camp Butner, North Carolina, last month. There were around 70 shooters from 9 nations competing at 300, 500, 600, 900 and 1000 yards in a week of shooting.

The Gibbs featured a lot in the reproduction rifle class, although some had modifications such as new sights and replacement locks. Since the Gibbs was introduced it has enabled far more shooters to get involved with the discipline.

Prior to the Gibbs coming on the market, other than the Parker-Hale Volunteer or Whitworth (which have their limitations) there wasn't a lot available other than a custom made rifle or finding an original match rifle.

David

 

[grey8833]

Paul:

I shoot a .451, custom - still in load developement - thanks for this post!

Nice shooting!

Mike F

 

[paulab]

Mike.... Don't get discouraged trying to find the load your rifle likes. Have you tried Swiss powder yet? Harder bullets like 20:1? Different over powder wads? I started out sizing down .459 bullets to be .001 under bore diameter. Accuracy was pretty good but I always seemed to get an unexplained flyer or two in every 10 shot group. [almost certainly due to excessive resizing]. Finally bit the bullet and had a custom .450 postell bullet mould made by Steve Brooks. Flyers pretty much went away. I tried two different paper patch bullets but didn't get the accuracy that the grease groove bullet gave. Bullet diameter is VERY IMPORTANT. The finished bullet in either paper patch or grease groove should never be more than .001 under bore diameter. You are probably aware of most of this stuff already but others in this forum who might get the long range "bug" might find it helpful. cheers Paul

 

[grey8833]

Paul:

Actually coming along pretty good. I use a 535 grain grease groove bullet, hard lead. The mold is from Pedersoli which throws a bullet just over .450 to .451. A beeswax and oil mix lube and a custom sizer from Lee (that took months to get I might add). My Green Mountain barrel pin gauges out at .451 exact, so the sizer is set to .450. Bullets run down the barrel under the weight of the rod. I am currently using ffg Goex under a lubed felt wad, but will be changing to Swiss 1.5 this winter (have to buy in 10 lb. lots. I clean between shots and use a #11 thru a platnium lined nipple. I have a Lee Shaver super soule on the back and a custom Distant Thunder on the front. Groups at 100 yards, prone, sling only, are running at 2 to 3 inches. I get nice tight cookie cutters (single hole, mulitple bullets and then a flyer, but its me not the gun. Need more practice frankly.

Precision shooting is a hoot with these guns. There is a 600 yard range about 40 minutes south of here, I just have to pony up the fees to shoot there.

The gun is not a Gibbs, but pretty much the same idea. Was a lot of fun to put together.

Mike F.
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u210/grey8833/English Match Rifle Build/Tack Driver/IMG_2328.jpg http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u210/grey8833/English Match Rifle Build/Tack Driver/IMG_2329.jpg http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u210/grey8833/English Match Rifle Build/Tack Driver/IMG_2330.jpg http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u210/grey8833/English Match Rifle Build/Tack Driver/IMG_2333.jpg

 

[paulab]

Mike...You did a MIGHTY FINE job putting your rifle together! That's the Rigby kit isn't it?Nice groups too. I admire you muzzleloaders who shoot prone with a sling. It's tough! If I'm not mistaken, that is the only position allowed in some Mid-L.R. M/L matches, right? Our matches in Michigan are prone "any position" so I just stuck with my trusty X-sticks. Shooting these rifles is really a hoot isn't it? cheers Paul

 

[BillinOregon]

Paul: Nice thread and some fine shooting. I've fired only a few rounds at mid-range distances from muzzleloaders and it was a lot of fun. It's just not as much fun getting up and down and firing prone with a bum lower back.
Did you get your Gibbs from Joe Hepsworth at J. Cunard? Are you using a platinum-lined nipple?

 

[grey8833]

Paul:

I believe (someone correct me if I am wrong) but the long range muzzleloading shooting is done prone, two point sling only > out to 600. 600 plus you are allowed a "wrist rest". Which is usually a bench rest support that you put your forward wrist onto.

The last time I saw cross sticks what that guy on u-tube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4WpYj3CATg

If you have not seen this one, watch it. By the third shot I was just shaking my head. Yea, it was a Ballard, but BP and iron sights to 1000 yards all the same. That second and third shot is simply unreal.

Mike

 

[ResearchPress]

Under MLAGB and International rules, you are correct

- out to 600 yards a two point sling is the only support permitted.
- beyond 600 yards shooters can fire prone with sling and/or a wrist rest, or can fire from the back position.

Use of the wrist rest is as described; ie. wrist is supported by the rest and the rifle sits in the hand.

The rest takes some care to use; if just the rest is fired from then care needs to be taken in making sure you have consistent shoulder contact/pressure with the butt. I find it better to use the sling to maintain consistent contact, and the rest adds a little extra stability. Some shooters get better results with just the sling.

Some long range shoots in the US (eg. that at Oak Ridge) permit shooters to use cross sticks I believe.

David

 

[paulab]

Bill...I did get my Gibbs from Joe Hepsworth, [GREAT GUY!] and yes, it has a platinum lined nipple. Because of the high breech pressure, the flash hole in a standard nipple will burn out in 30-50 shots and cause accuracy to go south in a hurry. The platinum nipple is a "must have" item. Joe also sells the little glass vials to put your weighed powder charges in. They really speed up loading time. cheers Paul