.451 Volunteer Load Recommendations

[Rokon]

Just stumbled across a nice EuroArms .451 Volunteer.

If anyone's had some experience with one, I would appreciate some loading and bullet lubricant recommendations.

 

[sumoj275]

Hello there,
I started a question a while back. I took it to the range once thus far and shot at a 100 yds, most that this range has, and it was a fun rifle. I shot a few of the Volunteer bullets that are from a Lyman mould that TOW had. Then I tried patched .440 RB and was smacking things at a 100 yds with ease. Did not waste any more of the expensive bullets and figured that this was a good plinker at that range. Sorry I could not be more help.

 

[paulab]

You can size down .458 bullets to .450 in a lubrisizer and they will work fairly well. For top accuracy though, [and I mean out to 1000 yards], bullets should drop from the mould at very close to bore diameter. .450-.451-.452 [slug your bore to find out.]
CAUTION..........bullets should NOT BE A LOOSE FIT! If a loose fitting bullet moves forward off the powder, you could bulge or burst the barrel. Generally, the bullet should go down the bore under the weight of a metal loading rod. No leaning on the ramrod. Bullet styles can run from 405 gr. up to 550 gr.
Another option is to paper patch. Check out "buffalo Arms" for many grease groove and paper patch bullet options.
Powder charges run from 50 to around 100 grains depending on the distance you want to shoot.
For top accuracy you should wipe between shots. Google up "research press" for lots more info.
Hope this helps. Cheers Paul

 

[F.G. Ford]

One of the issues with the Volunteer rifle and long bullets is that the nipple will burn out pretty fast.
Try and get a stainless steel nipple or better yet a platinum nipple (expensive ) will last a very long time.
A burnt out nipple will effect grouping.
Loading must very consistent (everything the same)
Best results are swab between shots, then powder,card,bullet (same pressure on bullet with each loading.
You should slug your barrel to find exact diameter.
Then size your bullets to your bore dimeter ( less than .0005" is good)
A lyman bullet # 457421 sized to your bore is good to 500 yards.
Black powder gives most consistent results.
To get best results, get a good bunch of black powder from the same batch #
A typical load will be about 70 grains of three F (fffg)
So that will yield only 70 shots to a pound.
I would recommend 20 lbs of powder from the same batch. That would yield about 1400 shots of quite consistent shooting.
I hope this helps, I have shot my Parker Hale for a long time, and it is very similar to your rifle.
Best regards!
Fred

 

[F.G. Ford]

Sorry..long winded today!
For this rifle you will need a few accessories (1) bullet casting furnace (2) bullet mold #457421(3) bullet sizer (4) card punch (5) a very good shooting rod to ram home your bullet (6) a well made bullet starter
Considering all this, you might as well send me your rifle since I have all the tools to go with it :redface: :v
Fred

 

[Rokon]

Thank you one and all for your helpful recommendations.

This forum in sensational for its participation.

Any bullet lube recommendations?

 

[Dphar]

Any bullet lube recommendations?

SPG Bullet Lube. The choice of champions.

Dan

 

[mhb]

FWIW:

A pound of powder will give 100 70-grain charges. I cannot recommend 3F powder for the Volunteer - better to stick with 2F or 1 1/2F Swiss.

And the AMPCO bronze nipples give excellent service, if you can find them - the one in my P-H Volunteer has fired at least a thousand rounds, and is still in excellent condition.

mhb - Mike

 

[sail32]

Have a look at http://www.researchpress.co.uk/, and here, http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/14689/Parker-Hale-Volunteer-Rifle#.UcsMqvTn_cs

 

[Rokon]

The Euro Volunteer takes a 5/16x20 nipple. A standard musket nipple is 5/16x24.

Does anyone know where one can find a platinum lined or AMPCO nipple with that thread form?

 

[mhb]

Check with The Possible Shop - they seem to carry the complete line of AMPCO musket nipples.
FWIW, the proper British musket nipple (as used in the PH Volunteer and Whitworth) are nominally 5/16 x 18.
They also list a metric musket nipple close to 5/16 x 20: 8 x 1.25mm. I'm sure they can advise you.

mhb - Mike

 

[Rokon]

Bingo! I think you may have solved the real problem.
It's a metric nipple.

I got out my metric thread gauges and measured the nipple that came with the Volunteer. The thread form is 1.25 and the diameter is just a bit under 8mm. Dixie is the source of the 5/16x20 reference. I suppose either would work, but the metric designation seems to be the real answer.

Will contact The Possible Shop and see what they say.

Thanks a million!

 

[mhb]

Quite welcome!
One more word of caution: some of the AMPCO nipples (musket size) purchased recently by a friend were somewhat undersized on the threaded shank, and fit too loosely to give a good gas seal or long service.
Make sure that the nipples you get are a proper fit (not loose in their seat - there should be little 'slop' in the thread fit). Then, always use a good lubricant on the threads when installing the nipple - I use aluminum or copper-based high temp grease.
Good luck!
mhb - Mike

 

[Rokon]

Mike--TOW confirms that the proper thread size is 8-1.25mm. They have them in steel or stainless steel plus one style for the musket cap and the other for the #11 cap.

Thanks again. The hunt is over!

 

[Idaho Ron]

I don't know what your rate of twist is but my 1-30 twist .451 loves paper patched RCBS 11mm rifle bullets. Lead hardness of about 40-1 and an over powder wad. Ron

 

[mhb]

I just want to reiterate that the AMPCO nipples are more durable than steel or stainless types, (in my experience), especially when full loads are used in heavy-bullet guns like the Whitworth and Volunteer.
And do check the fit of the threads: too-loose threads lead to gas leakage and possible damage to the threads in the bolster.

mhb - Mike

 

[nkbj]

Teflon tape is made for that.

 

[mhb]

I can't agree with that.
Teflon tape may be a workable field expedient for making-do with an undersized nipple, but it is not a preferred solution.
Proper thread fit doesn't require anything between the nipple thread and the bolster seat, nor does it leak gas. The use of a grease is only to insure that the nipple does not become seized in place and difficult to remove.
If you can't get a proper nipple, you have to do what you must, but I don't think that will be necessary in this case, if the nipple and the bolster threads are correctly made to the established standards for metric threads.
mhb - Mike

 

[Rokon]

Mike--AMPCO nipples have been a favorite of mine for years, but TOW may have something with their new 416 Stainless nipples which they claim are tougher and longer lasting than AMPCO.

I've used their 416 Stainless nipples for a year or so in my match rifles and I'm beginning to believe they are tougher than AMPCO based on the durability of the cone which takes a LONG time to deform--much longer than AMPCO cones.

 

[nkbj]

I can't agree with that.
Teflon tape may be a workable field expedient for making-do with an undersized nipple, but it is not a preferred solution.
Proper thread fit doesn't require anything between the nipple thread and the bolster seat, nor does it leak gas. The use of a grease is only to insure that the nipple does not become seized in place and difficult to remove.
If you can't get a proper nipple, you have to do what you must, but I don't think that will be necessary in this case, if the nipple and the bolster threads are correctly made to the established standards for metric threads.
mhb - Mike

It's not for an undersized nipple as inadequate thread engagement just turns a nipple into a projectile. Been there done that 1976 Gunsight, Texas. Teflon tape is made to squish and seal in a manner impossible for thread lubes. That's what it does while remaining solid and non-fouling.