50 cal for elk

Will a 50 cal invest hawken work for elk hunting.

 

[bingo1952]

If it is accurate it shouldn't be a problem. Keep your shots at 75 yards or less. That 180 grain round ball is going to be carrying about the same energy a 30-06 does at 500-600 yards so good shot placement is a must. A double ball load is another possibility you could try to get your downrange energy up.

 

[redwing]

Yes with a very heavy load it can shoot thru an Elk and tear a hell'eva hole. But know this in most cases he won't go down right away. Mark your target well when you recover from the blast and smoke he most likely won't be there. Be well prepared to track and recover your Elk. A Bull Elk is some times like a Sherman Tank with hair on it. :hmm:

 

[Idaho Ron]

If it is accurate it shouldn't be a problem. Keep your shots at 75 yards or less. That 180 grain round ball is going to be carrying about the same energy a 30-06 does at 500-600 yards so good shot placement is a must. A double ball load is another possibility you could try to get your downrange energy up.

I think you need to re check your energy facts. A 270 winchester which I have the facts in front of me is smaller than the 30-06 to a point. with a 140 gr bullet at 500 yards has 1411 FPE. at 600 yards it has 1214 FPE. A 177 GR PRB with 110 gr of powder at 1998 feet per second has only 1569 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle, and at 50 yards it has only 884 foot pounds of energy.
In NO WAY can, or should the two be compaired. Ron

 

[bingo1952]

My bust, I indeed should have checked. :shake: Thats what I get for trying to work from memory. The double ball load assumming 3" of separation at 75 yards should still do the job. It will have some of the advantages of a buckshot load in that it you will be getting two hits in quick succession versus a single hit; in essence a primitive double tap.

 

yes, it will work if you work up a load that accurate and don't shoot farther than you can keep a 4 inch group. Be honest about it, don't feel bad if that distance is just 50 yds, and you must be able to shoot that group at different positions not just off the bench. By the time you are pulling the trigger on an elk you may have hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars invested, so take a shot that is the surest you can and that means the boiler room. The heart lung shot is the best, don't try for the head, neck or spine unless you have a dead rest and you are close. A torn patch, hangfire, or a small twig could throw off your impact point and you dont want to take the chance on wounding and having to track and possibly not finding your animal.I usually shoot my elk within 50 yards and in 08 it was 40 yds, most of my kills be it deer elk or antelope rarely go over 75 yds after being shot. Your success or failure depends on you being brutally honest with your, and your guns limitations and working with those. remember with all things especially hunting with primitive weapons the rewards equal and for the most part exceeds the effort.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Will a 50 cal invest hawken work for elk hunting.

I get concerned with these types of statement because it can ALWAYS go to "the guy I know that kilt an elk with a .22" You COULD make a hammer or ? work too given perfect circumstance;
That being said.....Know your gun. Keep your range real, like 75 yards MAX! Be deadly accurate, and yes it will work.
You can enhance, in MY opinion, the preformce of the gun by useing connicals going up to the 400 grain mark. Extending your range to 100 to 125 yards (great accuracy STILL very important).
If elk is your long range (time frame) intended quary; I might recomend a .54 .....

But what ever you do....GO HUNTING! :grin:

 

[Bob Gular]

I would use, and have used, conicals when elk hunting with a 50 and am two for two in the shot/kill department. The first,a bull shot at 40 yards went about 50 yards after a complete pass through with a Lee minie, and the second, a cow, dropped on the spot from a front shoulder hit at between 90 and 100 yards, also a Lee minie. I do not believe a round ball would have put the cow down at that range with the hit being smack on the shoulder blade. Weight equals penetration in this business, and if you want to hunt large animals with roundball, use a larger roundball.
Just a couple sparks from this side of the fire.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Bob was that the improved mini? Ron

 

[cptleo1]

I would check the twist of your rifle.

If it is 1-48 I would go with a conical

It is just cheap insurance

Two good points were brought up here so far.

#1 - Tracking the elk - PRBs are not known for leaving particularly good blood trails - I don't think you can count on a pass through with the .50 and one little hole on a bull elk might present a tracking challenge.

#2 - It is pretty easy to have 5K or more tied up in an elk hunt.

Thats a lot of money to hope the Ideal shot comes up.

I would hope your memories of this hunt would be about your hunting buddies, the big country, the elk and back strap cooked on an open fire

You can never have to much gun.

Have fun what ever you do, cuz the ultimate final say is yours.

Take plenty of pictures and keep us posted.

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I hunted elk for 15 years with a 50cal both conicle and PRB and I hunted the last five years with a 54 and PRB.
I have killed elk every year with no problem killing my animals quickly and humainly.
A few facts.
If you use 100+ grns of ffg and a PRB with eather 50 or 54 at 50yrds or less your RB will be traveling fast enough to flatten out to a quarter size projectile and stop before hitting the rib cage on the other side due to being made out of pure lead. This is a double lung shot which is what you should be shooting at with a pure lead ball not sholder or other bony areas.
At 60+ yrds your ball has slowed down enough to where it won't flatten out unless hitting bone and should get clean pass through or a recovered ball in the hide on the oppisite side with a double lung shot.
I have never had an elk go more than 50 yrds before toppling and dying in two min or less with eather 50 or 54 PRB.
I switched to 54 because I like the bigger wound channel but have no problem using a 50.
I will say this I have taken very few shots at elk over 100 yrds and in all cases 50 or 54 I recovered the near perfect ball in the hide on the oppisite side.
Like Watty said you can kill an elk with a 22 AS LONG AS YOU GO FOR A DOUBLE LUNG SHOT !!
I strongly urge you to never go for a sholder shot.
Six years ago I killed a big heard cow at 125 yrds I had a perfect rest and a perfect broad side.
I diden't take into effect that the wind was blowing fairly strongly out of the west and my ball drifted six inches foward, luckly for me my 50 PRB passed through the thin sholder blade and angled back into both lungs. I recovered that ball and even tho it was traveling slower than a scared hillbilly getting chased by a mama bear it passed through the blade with minimal damage.
That ball rest in my medicin bag.
Yes 50cal is plenty but IMHO I like the bigger wound channel.
54 gives you a bigger hole but still allowes good down range ballistics with 100+ grns of FFG.
One last thing, shot placement is very, very imporant.
I aim for a lower lung shot on elk because it will give you very good blood trail, if you hit a high lung the blood WILL!! drain down into the chest cavity giving you very little blood trail.
Tracking skills over rough country is somthing every hunter must have to be 100 percent successful.
:thumbsup:

 

[tg]

Of all the advise you have recieved thus far Greenmtboys is the best and probably will be at the end of the thread as well.I suspect a lot of the advice given on Elk hunting is by folks who have never seen an Elk in the wild.

 

[longcruise]

I suspect a lot of the advice given on Elk hunting is by folks who have never seen an Elk in the wild.

WHAaaaa :shocked2: :shocked2: :rotf:

I've always been a bit nervous about the .50 rb on elk, but I completely respect GMboys advice on the question. I'll probably stick with my .54s and maybe even a .58 someday but I now feel better about the idea of a .50.

 

[John Wasmuth]

:thumbsup:
Gotta agree with that. Noone needs a mountain howizter to kill an elk, let alone most anything else. If you cant hold a less than a 2 inch group at 100 yards with your side lock rifle, leave it at home and take your 06. Shot placement is everything and if you cant hold'em under two inches at the range, you aint gona hold'em less than two inches on a live elk in the hills.

 

[Idaho Ron]

:thumbsup:
Gotta agree with that. Noone needs a mountain howizter to kill an elk, let alone most anything else. If you cant hold a less than a 2 inch group at 100 yards with your side lock rifle, leave it at home and take your 06. Shot placement is everything and if you cant hold'em under two inches at the range, you aint gona hold'em less than two inches on a live elk in the hills.

GMB us for the most part correct, but I am going to disagree with Micanopy, when he said,
“Gotta agree with that. Noone needs a mountain howizter to kill an elk, let alone most anything else.”
How many elk have you killed?
There is a big difference between the various sizes of antlerless elk and a bulls. I have shot a bunch of elk cows and trophy bulls. Never have I felt OVER gunned. Never have I killed them too dead. But I have tracked a LOT of dead elk. Friends have said to me “I think I made a perfect shot that elk should be dead”. A knot builds in your stomach and the only way to feel better is to track down that elk and finish it off. On a poor hit that might take a LOT of work.
I have had to track a couple of elk I shot. The point I am making is elk are big, and tough and almost impossible to knock off their feet with ANY rifle. But they are not bullet proof, They do require the load to have plenty of whomp. All the whomp in the world will NOT make up for a bad hit, but I tend to lean to the side of more whomp not less.
Ron

 

[John Wasmuth]

:thumbsup:
Gotta agree with that. Noone needs a mountain howizter to kill an elk, let alone most anything else. If you cant hold a less than a 2 inch group at 100 yards with your side lock rifle, leave it at home and take your 06. Shot placement is everything and if you cant hold'em under two inches at the range, you aint gona hold'em less than two inches on a live elk in the hills.

GMB us for the most part correct, but I am going to disagree with Micanopy, when he said,
“Gotta agree with that. Noone needs a mountain howizter to kill an elk, let alone most anything else.”
How many elk have you killed?
There is a big difference between the various sizes of antlerless elk and a bulls. I have shot a bunch of elk cows and trophy bulls. Never have I felt OVER gunned. Never have I killed them too dead. But I have tracked a LOT of dead elk. Friends have said to me “I think I made a perfect shot that elk should be dead”. A knot builds in your stomach and the only way to feel better is to track down that elk and finish it off. On a poor hit that might take a LOT of work.
I have had to track a couple of elk I shot. The point I am making is elk are big, and tough and almost impossible to knock off their feet with ANY rifle. But they are not bullet proof, They do require the load to have plenty of whomp. All the whomp in the world will NOT make up for a bad hit, but I tend to lean to the side of more whomp not less.
Ron

I've killed several of them. You need to re read back at what I wrote. SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. One can make a bad shot with a freakin grenade and have to do a lot of tracking. No where did I say that you can make up for poor marksmanship abilities with larger calibers did I?

 

[Greenmtnboy]

There is a big difference between the various sizes of antlerless elk and a bulls. I have shot a bunch of elk cows and trophy bulls. Never have I felt OVER gunned. Never have I killed them too dead. But I have tracked a LOT of dead elk. Friends have said to me “I think I made a perfect shot that elk should be dead”. A knot builds in your stomach and the only way to feel better is to track down that elk and finish it off. On a poor hit that might take a LOT of work.
I have had to track a couple of elk I shot. The point I am making is elk are big, and tough and almost impossible to knock off their feet with ANY rifle. But they are not bullet proof, They do require the load to have plenty of whomp. All the whomp in the world will NOT make up for a bad hit, but I tend to lean to the side of more whomp not less.
Ron

Amen brother,
Thanks for bringing up the one thing I forgot,
There is a huge( no pun intended) difference between a two and a half year old cow and a five year old herd bull as much as four hundred lbs.
This makes it all the more imporant to work with your rifle to get two inch or better groups at 100 yrds( I demand inch and a half or beter out of my rifles)
And practice, practice,practice. That is why I compete in off hand comps it keeps me from getting lazy.
Before we get into the conicle vs roundball discussion here is my opinion about both.
I feel neather is better in calm under 100yrds conditions, here is the kicker.
Round ball for the most part give a flatter trajectory out to 100yrds but is screwed in strong wind where as a conicle can buck the wind, I fine neather is more accurate. If you do your job finding the best load and bullet you should get MOA at 100 yrds.
Now with a conicle I shoot creedmore sites because there is a big difference between 50 and 100 yrds, With my 50 cal and a 400 grn RNFP and 110 grns of Goex express I am getting four inches of drop from 50 yrds to 100 yrds.
So I use an ajustable peep site so I can thread a needle in dark timber at close ranges if I have to.And if I am trying to get a clean 150 yrd shot it give me the option to raise my sites, somthing I WON'T!! do with a PRB.
Ron is a big conicle advicate and I have no problem with that they slam elk and keep right on going at all ranges. I switched to PRB because I like the primitive part of it, It make you a better hunter and if you are serious about putting up meat for the winter it really tunes you in.
:thumbsup:

 

[John Wasmuth]

Amen to that. Work with your rifle, make best friends with it, know what you can and can't do with it. The policy of the ranches I guide on is that everyone that hunts there will be able to put 3 rounds, with no matter what firearm they hunt with in a 2 inch bull at 100 yards distance. No hitty, no hunty. There is never enough gun to make up for shawty marksmanship under any conditions. I've chased two many 3 legged elk, red deer, bison, asian buffalo, zebra, eland, oryx, gemsbok, addax,and every kind of deer one can think of, wounded by hunters that never fail to tell me "This canon will put them down no matter where you hit'em"! Famous last words as they say. If ya cant make the shot, dont matter what yer shootin.

 

[Idaho Ron]

:thumbsup:
Gotta agree with that. Noone needs a mountain howizter to kill an elk, let alone most anything else. If you cant hold a less than a 2 inch group at 100 yards with your side lock rifle, leave it at home and take your 06. Shot placement is everything and if you cant hold'em under two inches at the range, you aint gona hold'em less than two inches on a live elk in the hills.

GMB us for the most part correct, but I am going to disagree with Micanopy, when he said,
“Gotta agree with that. Noone needs a mountain howizter to kill an elk, let alone most anything else.”
How many elk have you killed?
There is a big difference between the various sizes of antlerless elk and a bulls. I have shot a bunch of elk cows and trophy bulls. Never have I felt OVER gunned. Never have I killed them too dead. But I have tracked a LOT of dead elk. Friends have said to me “I think I made a perfect shot that elk should be dead”. A knot builds in your stomach and the only way to feel better is to track down that elk and finish it off. On a poor hit that might take a LOT of work.
I have had to track a couple of elk I shot. The point I am making is elk are big, and tough and almost impossible to knock off their feet with ANY rifle. But they are not bullet proof, They do require the load to have plenty of whomp. All the whomp in the world will NOT make up for a bad hit, but I tend to lean to the side of more whomp not less.
Ron

I've killed several of them. You need to re read back at what I wrote. SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING. One can make a bad shot with a freakin grenade and have to do a lot of tracking. No where did I say that you can make up for poor marksmanship abilities with larger calibers did I?

No you need to reread mine.
You need to have your wife back off on the starch in your underware. I never said ANYTHING about you SAYING this
"No where did I say that you can make up for poor marksmanship abilities with larger calibers did I?"

I will repeat I said use more than enough whomp. Lighten up you are saying things I didn't accuse you of. You did say "Noone needs a mountain howizter to kill an elk, let alone most anything else.”
I disagreed, and I still do. If a guy is using a PRB I say go with a BIG one, and stay close. Ron

 

[John Wasmuth]

:rotf: No starch in the house Brother! I think we're saying the same thing except for calibers, Sorry if I came off a bit harsh, didnt mean to, forgot the lil smiley thing. Bigger is better if people can shoot them. One of the hunters came out one time with a .75 caliber flintlock, cutoms made job and it was a sight to behold. At 100 yards the guy missed the entire target back board, a 4x4 sheet of plywood with it 3 times. I watched him on the third shot, he was closing his eyes and pulling his cheek off the stock everytime he squeezed the trigger. He got his deposit back after he argued that it was "How they did it back then". Had guys with .460 Weatherby's that couldnt hold a group at 100 yards better than 8 inches because they were afraid of the gun. In those cases bigger wasnt gona get anything done besides a gut shot animal if they hit it at all. Also have had hunters with .50's, .54's, 58's that could keep'em all touching at 100 yards. If you know what your rifle can do, and spend a lot of time with it, and pick your shots, it's elk for dinner. :thumbsup:
P.S.
And your more than right, get as close as you can. And then get 10 yards closer! :hatsoff: