The problem is even if I filed to much which could be a possible issue at 25 I was shooting level at 50 I was shooting slightly down on a tall target. If windage was not issue and I shot all around the target trying to figure out where it is shooting. I believe my casted real bullets are slightly to small and recast them just trying to locate some 2f around here and back to range. And we just got hit with 60 inches of snow so haven't been doing much. Problem is we are in our 2nd deer season now and just on the hurry up and resolve this.
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50 cal not hitting broadside of barn
- Thread starter Casem4
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Casem4 said:
I believe you are fooling around with too many variables. When you have the chance, more time on the range is sure to help you. And, please do use patched round balls. They murder Bambi just as ded as the bullet thingys. I know some claim their guns shoot better with 2Fg than 3Fg and visa versa, but for casual shooting and hunting there isn't an 'nth of difference once a load is worked up.
The issue is my gun is a fast twist and is a shallow groove gun. It is not designed for patch and ball. Believe me I know that rb is a deer killer how ever I can eliminate this as a variable. I did measure my casted real and it is about 1/10 off of the correct size meaning there is space from the shallow riffling. I also want to try 2f more of a push then snap. It was advise here and by another forum being that it is a large weight conical. This xplains many things. I also keep herein that bore butter could also be causing some issue for the gun accuracy
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Stumpkiller said:
And wise far beyond his years.... :thumbsup:
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Perhaps, the next time that you go shooting, you could let another person shoot a couple of rounds through your rifle and see if the results differ.
Casem4 said:
The largest band on your REAL bullet should measure 0.517". If the diameter of your home cast REAL bullets results in a 0.100" undersized bullet, there must be something in your lead pot that is causing all that shrinkage. I suspect your casting metal. Since the ball is that much undersized, it will not engrave on any rifling regardless of depth. For your bullets you are effectively shooting a smoothbore. When you get your 2fg black powder, but some 50 caliber bullets at your local gun shop. Measure the diameter of those bullets as compared to you home cast bullets. Let us know the measurement of those bullets. If you have a scale, weigh the bullets. What is the weight of your home cast REAL bullets. They should be very close to 320 grains.
On your targets at 25 yards, do you have any observable tumbling? Once your 50" of snow gets off the ground you need to go to the range. Use this process.
1: Really clean your rifle. Use a brush and solvent such as break cleaner to get rid of that baked in Bore Butter. Use a pipe cleaner to clean the flash channel between the nipple seat and the powder chamber. This process requires a very clean rifle and bore.
2. Shoot a 3 to 5 shot group at your 25 yard target and record the bullet, bullet lubricant and weight of powder and powder type and granulation. Is that the same group you got on your earlier range trips?
3. With the same load shoot 3 shots at 30 yards. What does that target look like. Is there any evidence of bullet tumbling? Record in you notes the difference between point of aim and point of impact.
4. With the same load, shoot a 3 shot target 5 yards further out until the group opens up. Look for oblong holes that might indicate tumbling. Record your results.
5. Using the new store bought bullets, shoot the 3 shot group at the range that the groups are opening up. Record the results.
6. Report all your results back to us. With pictures if you can post them.
At this time I am speculating that you have a contaminated lead supply and the bullets are shrinking way too much in your mold. There may be issues with the accuracy of your caliper. There may be so much caked on Bore Butter that your rifling can't properly engage the Lee REAL bullet.
Keep your hands away from the file until you are getting good groups.
Shoot over water or sand to know where you are hitting.
Since you are hitting good at 25y and can't hit at 50, try moving the target somewhere between the two. Need to see it on paper to help. I wish there was someone near you that could help nock out this problem.
Another good reason I nevr shot conicals is because they never did anything to offend me and besides that they are hard and no fun to eat.
Dutch
Dutch
There has to be an ml club in your area. Check in Muzzle Blasts, the NMLRA magazine. Call the contact of the club closest to you and/or drive to one of their shoots. You really need an experienced person to help you with this. No shame involved, that is how most of us got started.
Well I may be only 36 but like my grandpa said I was born to late. I have an old soul and have been using black powder since I was in my early teens. I also know that I don't know everything but something was wrong and believe I now know. I'm changing my lube from bore butter to 50/50 beeswax and crisco. I also recast my bullets. Being a shallow twist and the reals being smaller due to being contaminated with tin and or aluminum I cleaned it out and got my lee mold hot hot. And wow what a difference. Going to range today and freezing at 10 degrees but I'm gonna try again.
Casem4 said:
Glad things are improving for you. Funny game. Finding yer best load combo can be challenging. As for the Crisco... :barf: . Methinks using it for any ml use is bordering on being a sin. I suggest changing to peanut oil, olive oil or almost anything else. Keep us informed of your results.
With 5 feet of snow, you don't need to shoot the deer with a muzzleloader. Just tunnel up to them and grab them by the ankles! :grin:
While I'm eagerly awaiting your report on your latest range session, I'd like to offer 2 observations about the Lyman GPR rear sight and the Lee REAL mold: First, the adjustable rear sight, most likely the one presently on the rifle, has been known to have a "wandering zero." I.e., both the elevation and windage settings vary or are loose enough to affect target results. The primitive sight, which Lyman includes with the GPR, completely eliminates those problems, but may involve filing your front sight.
Second, Lee Precision's REAL conicals can be extremely accurate and the molds cast beautifully, but sometimes they cast "small." I.e., the diameter of the first band is too small for your bore and thus can't be Engraved (by the rifling) At Loading, and won't shoot as accurately as a REAL that fits correctly. One solution is to paper patch the that conical. The other is to "beagle" the mold, but you'll have to search the Cast Boolit Forum or google "beagling" for particulars.
Hope you do better at your range session, and I hope the above is helpful!
Second, Lee Precision's REAL conicals can be extremely accurate and the molds cast beautifully, but sometimes they cast "small." I.e., the diameter of the first band is too small for your bore and thus can't be Engraved (by the rifling) At Loading, and won't shoot as accurately as a REAL that fits correctly. One solution is to paper patch the that conical. The other is to "beagle" the mold, but you'll have to search the Cast Boolit Forum or google "beagling" for particulars.
Hope you do better at your range session, and I hope the above is helpful!
It is my understanding they are made that way to facilitate loading. First band goes in easily and straight, rest follow and engrave as you push it down.
Rifleman, It's just the reverse: You can practically thumb start the REAL except for the first band, i.e., the one at the muzzle. That one is indeed larger by design so that it can be "engraved" by the rifling. If they fit the bore in question, they'll be accurate, assuming shooting skills, excellent bbl., etc. When they're too small or fit loosely in the muzzle and bore, things go south quickly. Don't ask....!
Well thanks for the observations. The real does taper to allow a easy load. I really think my problem was I was using the lead I had and mixed so wheel weights into the mix. Was shooting alot just never honed the accuracy. And discovered that it wasn't pure lead. I know this but never even thought about it till the issues started. I really want to put down range some 2f but unable to locate it in time. Deer season is already going by a week and a half with a week left. So hurrying lol.
Couldn't go to range but trying again tomorrow after work with new cast bullets and see what happens.
Couldn't go to range but trying again tomorrow after work with new cast bullets and see what happens.
Twowithone
40 Cal.
The primitive sight on my GPR is manure. Last yr went on a hunt took rifle out of bag and rear sight wasn't there it fell off. Maybe I screwed it up but I used blue Loctite on it so it wouldn't fall out of the groove. Tried everything from folks on here to using shims and all well now its loctited. :thumbsup:
Need to take a hammer to the lip of the wedge or grove or the site itself and spread it out SLOWLY and LIGHTLY. Locktite aint the way to go :shake:
Others can explain better
Others can explain better
My site is the buckhorn and it certainly isn't the problem. It's tight. I do have some issue with the gun pins but hardly believe that could have been the issue. I did get to the range today in a snow storm lol. I swabbed the bore with rubbing alcohol and loaded the new real bullets. It seated up to the second band and had to press in with the beeswax crisco combo Certainly was a tight fit. And poof hitting the paper plate. Still hAve work to hone in. It seemed to hit right and low. Nothing really grouping tight but in the area. Really want to shot some 2f see if That helps. But good to go hunting with.
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