50 cal. rb penetration

[jeep02]

I have hunted with a roundball for about twenty years. I own a tc pennsylvania hunter. It likes 80 gr. of powder to shoot well.every deer i have shot the round ball never exited. since i am colorblind I have a hard time seeing bloodtrails an exit would help but80 is max for accuracy.any suggestions.If you hit shoulder or just ribs the roundball is under the skin on opposite side everytime.they expire quickly but it gets to be a chore to find then sometimes.

 

[longcruise]

You have a few options on this. Sometimes balls do not exit because they hit hard enough to flatten out and slow penetration. Sometimes upping the charge will get an exit but actually 80 in your .50 is a pretty stout charge. Sixty grains shoud be adequate to take the local deer. Sometimes they will exit better if you slow them down so as to limit deformation and therefore increase penetration.

Another approach is a harder ball cast with wheel weights or maybe part lead and part wheel weights. That would penetrate further due to less deformation and still should be a good killer on WT deer. Then there may be the issue of establishing accuracy all over again

The thing about a WT is that their skin is very elastic so when the bullet gets to the offside it tends to stretch way out and stop the ball without the ball going through.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I have only ever recovered one .50 cal round ball from a whitetail deer (and never a .54). But I try for broadsides and lungs, avoiding bone (as I do with arrows). Here it is.

This was a 11 yard (12 paces) ground level frontal shot that went through the aorta and lodged under the skin behind the legbone after tunneling around it (against the bone). 32" of penetration with 85 gr FFFg. The buck reared up and then collapsed without moving from where his hind legs stood. Gotta love that.

Granted, it's probably got some scrap solder and antimony (I use scrap lead and have supplemented with wheel weights in the past).

Almost no deformation: from 0.490" to .520" at the widest.

 

[S.Kenton]

NICE!... If one didn't know better, one would think that had never been shot. Do you sell those Stumpkiller? :thumbsup:

 

[Spikebuck]

since i am colorblind I have a hard time seeing bloodtrails

Unless one is colorblind..as I am too (or color deficient really as I don't just see in black and white) one cannot begin to imagine how hard it is for us to see blood if you have the red/brown color deficiency. Many times the outbound hole is so much larger and is the one that really spills the blood, so it's important to have that hole. That and a wife that's good at blood trailing and willing to go out in the dark with a Coleman lantern in hand!!!! :haha:

You don't mention how far you are shooting, so it's hard to know how much energy your 50 caliber ball has upon arrival, which is also a factor. There was a thread in the hunting section not long ago on this topic and virtually everyone was claiming passthru's with 50 caliber roundballs and many with less powder charge than you're using. To ensure complete penetration, you may need to limit shot distance and take only those nice broadside shots trying to avoid the shoulder socket area.

Another option may be to up the weight by using a Buffalo Ball-et or similar short bullet that will generally fly well from a slow-twist barrel. Because the sectional density is greater in a bullet, energy should be retained at longer distances other factors being constant.

Personally, using both 50 and 54 caliber, I've only ever had one bullet/ball stay in the deer and that was a frontal shot that dropped the animal in it's tracks. Every other big-game animal has been broadside anywhere from 8 to 115 yards and were complete pass thrus. Your load should do the same at reasonable yardages.

BTW...I assume you're using real black powder or pyrodex or 777. I tried American Pioneer powder once and found I only got half the velocity I did from the others, which would greatly affect energy. I never even used it for hunting based on those poor results and have stuck to 777 in my percussions and real black powder in flintlocks. 777 is a phenomenal high-velocity powder IMO. If you have access to a chronograph, you could try a few different powders and see what gives you good accuracy and the maximum velocity.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I had enough "color defficiency" that the USMC didn't want me. I still see red in the daylight, but at night or dusk it might as well be black. One thing that REALLY helps is a little kick azz flashlight I got that puts out a bucket of lumens (modes for 10 (65 hrs), 70 (9hrs), 125 (4 hrs) or 235 lumens (1.5 hrs)). All this in a 4" flashlight!

It's a FENIX PD30 (uses two C123R batteries) and these can be had relatively cheap at Brothers of the Bow's website ($8/4) - they also sell an almost identical light (same mfg) under the brand "Mainbeam". The newest generation is even brighter. It's 315 lumens on high!

 

[Mattole]

I had enough "color defficiency" that the USMC didn't want me. I still see red in the daylight, but at night or dusk it might as well be black. One thing that REALLY helps is a little kick azz flashlight I got that puts out a bucket of lumens (modes for 10 (65 hrs), 70 (9hrs), 125 (4 hrs) or 235 lumens (1.5 hrs)). All this in a 4" flashlight!

It's a FENIX PD30 (uses two C123R batteries) and these can be had relatively cheap at Brothers of the Bow's website ($8/4) - they also sell an almost identical light (same mfg) under the brand "Mainbeam". The newest generation is even brighter. It's 315 lumens on high!

Gotta love those LED flashlights!!

 

[groundhoginwv]

I dont know why anyone would WANT a bullet to pass through a deer personally. I would much prefer for the full energy of the projectile to be passed to the deer providing penetration was sufficiant to pass through the vitals for maximum effect. But thats just me.

GHOG

 

[Spikebuck]

The reason is because you get a much better blood trail and complete penetration means everything possible in the path was damaged. Of course, if the full absorption means the animal is dropped in it's tracks from the shock, great. But if they are going to run off for 50 or 100 yards anyway, that second hole on the outbound side produces a LOT of blood.

The doe I shot in the late muzzleloader season this year bled pretty much only out of the outbound side which had a huge hole due to expansion of the bullet. She was easy to track in fresh snow, but that clean slate also let me see which side was putting out the blood. Had it been no snow and I was tracking her in the quickly fading light and if I didn't have that outbound hole putting out a spray of blood for the 100 yards she ran, it would have taken me...being color blind... a long time to do the tracking.

I don't think anyone with normal color vision can imagine what those of us that don't see normal color deal with on a blood trail. I know I'm amazed when my wife sees blood 10 yards ahead in the dark by lantern light and I can't see it when I'm standing right over it.

I hear you on the full energy absorbtion, and maybe it's my 30 years of bowhunting prior to taking up muzzleloading that influences me, but I want TWO holes whenever possible.

 

[jeep02]

Ishoot bp exclusivly ff all my shots are usually under 50 yard with 70 being my longest all shots are broadside only hit shoulder a couple of times. I can see blood at night with lights cause it shines but in the daylight I can never see it.Ishoot hornady 490 lead rb and sometimes a coppercoated rb. both have equal penetration. I might try cutting back on the charge and see if it makes a diff.Thanks to all who have responded so far I appreciate the help.

 

[jeep02]

I've never shot anything through my rifle but a round ball because of the slow twist it has if another ballet is the ticket i'm intrested. more weight would do better far as mass and energy. the penetration would have to be better.

 

[Kapow]

On that, I've been using the Led Lenser H7 headlamp. Fully adjustable and frees up hands. An African PH put me onto them. They use them for tracking leopard at night.

I tracked a bloodtrail one dark night, then went back the next day and couldn't do any better than the previous evening. Or if you want to be H.C. take three hundred candles.

 

[sky hawk]

The amount of energy transferred to the animal depends on the amount of resistance (force) the animals body pushes back against the bullet with. If you shoot them in the lungs there is much less energy expended than if you shoot them through both shoulders (much more resistance). When you apply more energy than there is resistance, you get an exit wound. Getting an exit wound doesn't cause any less energy to be expended in the animal. It simply means you had more than enough energy to pass through.

Not getting an exit wound gives you no benefits - only the unfortunate experience of having very little blood trail. If you want the maximum amount of energy to be expended in the animal, then try to shoot through as many bones as you can. But if you get a pass through that just means you had energy to spare. There is no less energy delivered to the animal. That's a misconception.

 

[Rat Trapper]

I dont know why anyone would WANT a bullet to pass through a deer personally. I would much prefer for the full energy of the projectile to be passed to the deer providing penetration was sufficiant to pass through the vitals for maximum effect. But thats just me.

GHOG

Two holes in the hide, more options for blood to leak out on to the ground.

 

[Rat Trapper]

The amount of energy transferred to the animal depends on the amount of resistance (force) the animals body pushes back against the bullet with. If you shoot them in the lungs there is much less energy expended than if you shoot them through both shoulders (much more resistance). When you apply more energy than there is resistance, you get an exit wound. Getting an exit wound doesn't cause any less energy to be expended in the animal. It simply means you had more than enough energy to pass through.

Not getting an exit wound gives you no benefits - only the unfortunate experience of having very little blood trail. If you want the maximum amount of energy to be expended in the animal, then try to shoot through as many bones as you can. But if you get a pass through that just means you had energy to spare. There is no less energy delivered to the animal. That's a misconception.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[jeep02]

Thank you Rattrapper two holes are what im looking for . even though I am colorblind More blood on the bloodtrail is what we are all after. As far as shooting through the shoulder and as much bone as possible why ruin the meat.

 

[larry wv]

Well said. :thumbsup: You are 100% right. Larry Wv

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have had only one .530 ball not go through and through, and that was after an "odd" sounding noise when I fired, so I think it was a partially damp powder charge..., and the range was about 50 yards with 70 grains of 3Fg.

Otherwise out to 110 yards, my all lead, Hornady brand, round ball goes through the deer with a broadside shot.

I'd say the easiest thing to try would be go to wheel weights, as it will lighten the ball by 10 grains, but will not deform nearly as much as all lead. A .530 hole is a .530 hole after all...,

Now as to blood trails, well I have seen the deer fall, or found them a after short distance, but I have also seen them go 80 yards with no blood, and then suddenly leave a very obvious trail for the next twenty yards, leading up to them. You can never tell. I prefer a double lung hit, with two external holes, as that does a better job of collapsing the lungs, and two holes may bleed better, but it's the lungs I am after.

LD

 

[paulvallandigham]

How can more blood in a blood trail help you, if you can't see RED???

Have you just considered learning how to read Tracks? Every deer I know has 4 feet, and that leaves a lots of tracks to follow. :surrender: :hmm: :thumbsup:

If you want more blood, and exit wounds, get a LARGER BORE gun- say .58 or .62 Caliber. Those big heavy lead balls are notorious( famous?) for completely penetrating deer with any kind of broadside shot, whether you hit bone or not. They leave BIG (bigger?) entrance wounds, and HUGE exit wounds. Lots of damage to the internal organs along the way. Most of those reports you can read in this Thread involving the use of these large bore guns indicates that the deer often drop in their tracks or travel very short distances. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Robby]

Ky hunter, A fellow I know is color blind, he carries a small spritzer bottle of Hydrogen peroxide. If he loses the trail he sprays a mist of that stuff and the blood shows up good.
Robby