50 cal TC 1:48 twist reasonable accuracy?

[Frontier's]

TC renegade .50cal with 70gr 2fg gearhart owen .020 patches and. 490 round balls at 50 yards.

 

[towgunner11h]

TC renegade .50cal with 70gr 2fg gearhart owen .020 patches and. 490 round balls at 50 yards.

This is what I expect as well. Shots should be touching or one ragged hole at 50 yards.

 

[Howard Pippin]

Guys, I'm curious, do you have any trouble setting off the charge with regular caps on a side lock? With 777?
I've never tried it. Black powder is getting harder to get around here.
David

Because of the lack of black powder sellers in Montana, I too use 777 In my percussion rifles. Before I ever tried it, a little research told me that there would be some misfires, so being that I own a complete set of wire bits, I just measured the hole size (.026) in my new percussion that I bought and bored it out, very Carefully, to about .031. At .030, I did get one misfire and now I don't. I don't load heavy, as how 777 Is hotter than black, I only shoot about bullet size grain for grain. My 45 I figure 45 grains of 777 Max. In my 50s I go to 50. I mainly shoot target or a few gongs and that's plenty hot. I even hunted antelope with that charge, but I missed the darn bugger and shot over his back. It was about 70 yards.
Squint

 

[tgfrench]

Thanks for replies---makes me think. I'll do some more testing with Tripple Seven FF, in 5 grain increments (probably 65 to 85 grains) and, I found some Tripple Seven fffg, so will try that also. My old shoulder doesn't like the recoil so probably won't try the conical even though I think they would probably be a better hunting load. Looking to get better accuracy out of the RB.

I'd like to get 2.5 inches in 100 yds off the bench, but first need to get a lot better at 50 yards! Thanks again.

You might consider going even lower. Start a 45 grains and work up 5 grains at a time. I just read though that Maryland has a Mim. of 60 grain load for deer hunting. Your state may vary.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

I had issues with it when I tried it and am happy to have a descent little stash of black on hand again. Just never achieved that instant ignition I always got with black. Delayed ignition, hangfires, and missfires galore for me. No11 or musket caps didn't make a difference.

That said, others have reported good results using T7. So as with many things, YMMV.

Back in the day I tried every black powder substitute that came on the market. I had excellent results with all of them. They are all "flammable solids" like smokeless powder, while black powder is an "explosive". Much different rules for shipping and storing. However, not all, but many of the substitutes are no longer available! We don't know if 777 or whatever powder you are using is going to be available in 10 years when you run out of it! However I will bet my best rifle that Goex F, FF, FFF, and FFFF will be available, even if I have to drive to the NSSA, National Matches to buy it!

 

[dwarvenchef]

TC renegade .50cal with 70gr 2fg gearhart owen .020 patches and. 490 round balls at 50 yards.

70gr 2f, .15 ticking, 490rb wonderlube, 70 yds cloverleaf T/C Hawken born in early 80’s. In the late 80’s I burnt about a pound a month out of that rifle on pigs, deer, and squirrels (evil beasts)… Her hay days. Now she sits in her case cursing me to get out more…

The key here is to get used to YOUR system and always test new things on the side to see if you can find a new tweek. I still have yards of ticking to tryout, most will end up as cleaning patches but once in a while a batch will turn out good patching material. I go to the fabric store during sales and look for pure natural fiber and about the right heft for testing. Reminds me I need to raid my mothers quilting horde of fabric to see if anything will work out

 

[Little Brother]

Wading in deep here. Trying to work up the most (reasonably) accurate Round Ball load with my TC 50 1:48 twist. Has Peep sight (old eyes). Using Tripple seven FF. .490 Round Ball Patched with .170 ticking and Bore butter. Best accuracy I am getting at 50 yds is barely inside of 2" . Not sure I can reasonably expect much better.

I've shot10 grains more and less but groups open. I've shot .495 with same patch and ball combos and groups are worse.

Thinking about trying tripple seven fff if I can get some.

What is your load and what accuracy are you getting?

I have the most consistent accuracy with PRB, both .490 and .495 ( .015-.010 respectively) with 80 grains pyrodex select.

 

[ElkStalker]

I'm pretty satisfied with how my 1:48 Hawken groups at 50yds using 80gr 2F Scheutzen pushing a 320gr TC Maxi-Ball. I know youre asking about PRB, but figured I might share.

Factory sights, shooting from a bench using sandbags for a rest. I think the rifle itself is capable of better and the human element is the biggest limitation.

First shot landed way low and a bit right. Adjusted sights and went too far as can be seen by where the second shot landed. After the second sight adjustment, shots 3, 4, 5, and 6 grouped in nicely.

Are you using an over powder wad with those conicals?

 

[ElkStalker]

Wading in deep here. Trying to work up the most (reasonably) accurate Round Ball load with my TC 50 1:48 twist. Has Peep sight (old eyes). Using Tripple seven FF. .490 Round Ball Patched with .170 ticking and Bore butter. Best accuracy I am getting at 50 yds is barely inside of 2" . Not sure I can reasonably expect much better.

I've shot10 grains more and less but groups open. I've shot .495 with same patch and ball combos and groups are worse.

Thinking about trying tripple seven fff if I can get some.

What is your load and what accuracy are you getting?

Shot my Hawken this week after getting the crown tended to. This group is 4 shots. The flyer was my fault. I started at 60 grains, then 70gr and the groups weren’t good. This load used was 80gr of FFFg Goex, .018” pillow ticking lubed with TOW mink oil, LIGHTLY lubed only on the smooth side, rough side loaded against the ball. I had prelubed a few patches on both sides the night before and those gave terrible results. Also using too much lube opened my groups up. I agree with the comment made earlier, bore butter might be too slick. Your patches also may not be thick enough. They could be good enough to seal the gases, but not thick enough to engage the rifling as well as it should. I tried .015” pillow ticking with dismal results, though they were in good shape after firing and gave every indication that they were the proper size. My load is really tight. I found that accuracy was good with the above load if I ran a spit patch and a dry patch between shots, but if used any cleaner at all, accuracy would suffer and the first shot was always a flyer (see the photo of my target). Also, using 2F Goex yielded poor results. This rifle really likes 3f powder.
One issue could be that you need to use real black powder. I’ve had some percussion sidelocks that never shot well with substitutes. Your Renegade should be just as capable as mine and you just have to find what makes it tick. I built this Renegade in the hopes of using heavy conicals and so far haven’t had much luck. Best group so far was 3-4” at 50yds. My hope is to be a lot better than that. I need to try some over powder wads next and have a feeling that using 3f in this rifle feather than 2F might be what she needs.
My Hawken barrel is noticeably more free than the right Renegade barrel. I’m still working on that one. I’ll likely got with a .495 ball and .012” pillow tick and see if it improves. I was getting a 2” group, sometimes 3” with the same load as my Renegade.

 

[stikshooter]

Best accuracy I've been able to get is 2" with 70 gr. at 50 yards. I will probably try 5 grain increments to see if that makes any difference.

It will especially using OE 2/3F mine likes 80 3F

 

[Archer 756]

REAL BP Pyrodex P and T-7 Junk

 

[RIDE-RED350R]

Are you using an over powder wad with those conicals?

No Sir, just drop the powder, tap the rifle but on the toe of my boot a few times, then seat the Maxi and shoot.

 

[brushblind]

My TC Hawken prefers the thinner patches, thicker didn't improve accuracy. Two inches is OK for 50 yds. with patched ball, don't sweat it! Maxi's will be about the same even off a bench. Once in a great while you'll find a TC barrel that will be better but rarely. What you'll find is more TC shooters claiming hole in hole accuracy than actual rifles that can do it. After market barrels like Green Mountain are very good shooters but are on backorder most of the time and run about 300 plus shipping and taxes. Just have fun and enjoy your Hawken shooting!

 

[Erwan]

In Absurdistan, getting real BP is more difficult, so I start shooting with T7 propellant (normally forbidden in the country). The sensations are not like with the real BP (and the smoke stink), but the result seems OK in the beginning.

I did it yesterday afternoon, so I think that you can do the 2x2" at 50 yards easily (13 balls like in MLAIC and sights not yet adjusted):

 

[Dale Allen Raby]

Wading in deep here. Trying to work up the most (reasonably) accurate Round Ball load with my TC 50 1:48 twist. Has Peep sight (old eyes). Using Tripple seven FF. .490 Round Ball Patched with .170 ticking and Bore butter. Best accuracy I am getting at 50 yds is barely inside of 2" . Not sure I can reasonably expect much better.

I've shot10 grains more and less but groups open. I've shot .495 with same patch and ball combos and groups are worse.

Thinking about trying tripple seven fff if I can get some.

What is your load and what accuracy are you getting?

I think that a 2" group at fifty yards is actually a pretty good group with round balls. That would translate to about 4" at 100 yards, which is adequate for deer hunting. You can try different patches, different loads, etc., but what other folks use does not necessarily mean the same will work for you.

In these troubled times, I am using 7 grains of Old Eynsford 3f black powder topped off with either 30 or 50 grains of T7, depending upon the range I am shooting at. This is my way of preserving my black powder supply until I can afford to order more... and can actually find some for sale. I usually use thin patches, about .007" - .008" made out of either pillow ticking or linen. I usually use T/C Bore Butter for a lube, but have also used olive oil, Crisco, lard and cooking spray. With these loads I typically get about the same groups you are getting with a T/C Renegade .54 caplock that has the original sights.

I use approximately the same loads with my .50 caliber Renegade flintlock, but due to hang time, old eyes, old nervous system and musculature, I don't group as well with it. My T/C Hawken .45 used to group about three inches at 50 yards with round balls, but has since developed a ring in the barrel. The ring was probably there before I bought the rifle (badly used) and was filled with carbon that likely broke loose. Now I can't hit the proverbial bull in the a$$ with round balls, but unentionables with 180 grain 10mm bullets in them with 7 grains of BP topped with 70 grains of T7 give me great groups... better than you are getting at fifty yards. I have a Williams FP-Hawken on that gun. Apples and oranges though.

I normally shoot .490 round balls in my .50 calibers. I have tried T/C prelubed .015 patches, but almost needed a mallet to get them started... even in the Hawken with factory QLA. They shot no better, so after injuring myself when my hand slipped down the rod and ripped a chunk of skin off on the front sight, I discontinued those patches.

I'm not really a precision shooter though, so a 2" group at fifty yards is plenty good enough for killing gallon jugs filled with water.