50 caliber setup for small child

[duckd]

My 10 year old son is small for his age, only 40 lbs. He can accurately shoot out to about 50 yards with a 22. So he is going deer hunting this year. Since he is so small, I will have to cut the stock significantly, about a 9 inch reach of pull. I found a good deal on a side lock 50 caliber, so that is the gun. I do not want to cut an expensive gun. I plan on using a PRB and working up a load. The range will be 30 yards or less. I hope to use the minimum accurate load, not less than 50 grains equivalent to BP. I have read hunters using 60 grains but not 50, is 50 too low for 30 yard shots at deer? Also, will 777 ignite well or does it have issues similar to pyrodex. I struggled with pyrodex in my side lock. If the 777 will ignite, the true powder weight would be about 15% less, in theory reducing the recoil. Thanks for the help. I know this is a traditional page, so please remember I am trying to get a setup for a very small young boy in the woods hunting.

 

[jamesthomas]

hi duckd! well i think 50 grs.of 3fff bp will do the trick. also what length barrel is this sidelock? would not know about 777. as i shoot a flintlock. but 60 grs of 3fff swiss went through a 750 page hardback book at 30 yards easy with bits of pages blown through on the backstop.may be some of the percussin guys can help with the powder issue. amakiller cause the first thing i shot with my rifle was a armadillo - self defense

 

[R.M.]

What's the gun? I have a plain-Jane CVA Frontier stock you can have if it'll work for you.I think the Plainsman will fit it too.

 

[gonpce]

I have shot 777 with my sidelock for several years, using RWS caps. No problems igniting.

 

[jamesthomas]

duckd a 28 to 32 inch barrel should be ok prob. would not go any longer. by the way i'm 5'0 tall 105lbs. 33 inch barrel is the longest i can shoot.

 

[duckd]

Just thru on some venison burgers for lunch :grin:, kid loves them.
RM,Thanks for the offer, I do not know the specifics on the gun. It is either a Traditions or CVA with a 24" barrel and a 1:48 twist. The gun is only $30 and the barrel appears to be in good condition. May not be the best but can not beat the price. I had a CVA with a 24" barrel that would shoot good groups with a PRB so I figured same set up may work.

 

[MikeChapin]

$30? Howcum I never find buys like that?

fifty grains of 3F should be plenty at 30 yards. 70 grains of 3F will go completely through the chest of a large mule deer at 70 yards.

You probably could even drop to 40 grains at that range. Do some penetration testing on some old catalogs to see what it will do.

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

20 grs of fffg goex will go through a 2x4 board at 20 yds.
With a sidelock it will not kick much at all.

 

[necchi]

T7's does work in those Traditions/CVA drum breech guns just fine, My 16 yr old has been shooting his since he was 9. Just make sure the drum is clean and dry. If you want a no risk sur-fire ignition for a one shot hunt, pull the nipple and trickle a little powder in the drum. Be aware the added powder may change the group.

Now before this turns into another "gotta use black" thread. I just answered the gents ?'s is all, and the boy has been using T7 succesfully for 7 years and the only problem was a fouled drum because his old man didn't clean the lube out proper, :wink:

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

I have a 50 Cal CVA Mountain Stalker. I tried 777 and had quite a few misfires with the standard nipple. Even when I tapped the gun on its side to put some powder into the drum. I never had an ignition problem with Pyrodex or Goex. I am not saying that you have to use black powder but this was my experience. I got my best results with 85g of ffg Goex a .490 ball and a .015 patch. I never tried to work up a smaller load so I can't help you there.

Bob

 

[paulvallandigham]

Istill think you should be using Real BLACK POWDER, instead of the sub. And, USE 2Fg to cut the recoil, not 3Fg. 50 grains of 2Fg is a mild shove, not a sharp crack to the shoulder or arm.

Also PUT A RECOIL PAD on that stock. They still sell slip over recoil pads, if you don't know how or can't do a fitting to the cut down stock. As long as he's not asking to run a .50 cal. RB through an Elk at 150 yards, the smaller loads recommended will work fine. But, recoil pads reassure young shooters that the " big gun " is not going to hurt them. A .50 caliber ANYTHING is a BIG GUN to kids, no matter how much they say they know about guns. Don't believe me? Ask your son how his NON-shooting friends react when he tells them he is going to be shooting a .50 caliber rifle for deer hunting this season!??

I get the reaction from kids in my Hunter Safety classes all the time. I PASS A Round Ball around just to get their eyes to come back down in size.

I also concur in recommending that whatever load you choose for him to use, have him to penetration testing, so he gains confidence that a well placed shot will kill a deer quickly. Phone books are okay. I use pine boards, so its easier to see the kind of damage a RB does, and recover the ball. This is going to be his first "REAL " deer hunt. There is a lot going on in his mind already, as he is also having to deal with killing a "bambi". It makes no difference how much venison he has eaten, or how many times he has helped you, or others clean or process a dead deer. This time, its going to be him. He doesn't want to disappoint you, and he doesn't want to be seen as a cry-baby who can't pull the trigger, or who becomes upset when he realizes he did kill a deer.

{HINT: Let the kid off the hook. Be there with him, and when he does kill the deer, have him stop and say a prayer of thanksgiving to God for allowing him to have this fine animal. It will give him something to do to deal with his feelings, and that will help him enjoy the hunt. Oh, if he does cry, tell him its okay. its all right for him to feel badly that he killed an animal so that he can participate in the entire hunting experience. I routinely tell my students that I cried the first deer I killed,( true!), that I was a lot older than they are, and that I still say a prayer of Thanksgiving to God for the deer's life. American Indians, for whom God was involved in everything they experienced, also said prayers thanking God for their successes in Battle, and in hunting.}

Good hunting for both of you. :thumbsup:

 

[jethro224]

Looks like you got some good advice here.

The boy might just surprise you. Start him out with some light 30-40 grain loads and then work him up 5 grains at a time until you get to a heavier load that he is still comfortable with. He just might shoot 60 or 70 grain loads just fine. :hmm:

You can order real blackpowder online if you want to try some. I like www.grafs.com myself. They sell small lots and will cover the shipping. You pay the HazMat charge. There are other places too.

This'll be a deer season you both will remember the rest of your lives. :thumbsup: Doesn't even matter if either one of you shoots a deer.(I hope you both do :wink Have a fun and safe deer season.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

All good advise here, not too much left to add!

50 grains is the standard charge for the B.S.A. merit badge for a 50 cal. rifle. Being he's got a small frame, I would start with 30 grains (without the pad), and work the load up in 5 grain increments, until you see a noticeable difference in the group. Then put the pad onto the butt plate and see if the group comes back. Then you'll know the "flinch-point", at least, and then can therefore suggest that any load over "X" you want him to use the pad. I've done this with younger cub scouts, and it WORKS!

Good luck and good hunting!

Dave

 

[romeoh]

This thread might be interesting for you... :hatsoff:
Link