.54 cal shot placement options for Elk

[4given]

Not sure if this is the right place for this question/disscussion but here goes........

I will be using my T/C Renegade in .54 for a cow elk early this fall in Idaho. I have hunted for several decades with centerfire but never have hunted with a muzzleloader. I will be using genuine black powder, musket caps and a 425 gr Hornady Great Plains HP conical bullet. I will not shoot at anything over 100 yards and I will try my best to keep my shot around 50 yards or less if possible.

So my question is about shot placement. Where is the best place to shoot a cow elk with this kind of set up? I DON'T want to chase a wounded cow elk all over creation. I really want to anchor the thing in it's tracks as much as possible. If I go for a shoulder shot and break down the front shoulder is the bullet likely to continue on and penetrate into the vitals? If I go for a double lung shot will the bullet still have enough juice to perhaps break the shoulder on the other side? Maybe if I am presented with a close shot I do go for a neck shot providing my marksmanship skill are up to snuff?

I'm interested in hearing you opinions especially those of you who have "been there, done that".

 

[silly goose]

I have not been there and done that with elk, but if I were in your shoes, I don't think you can go wrong with a double lung shot. I only shoot round ball, and again I've never been in elk territory, but hear they can be real tough, I personally would stay away from the onside shoulder, especially with a hollow point. Just my opinion, good luck on your hunt, I am certainly envious.

 

[Bill Hall]

Killed quite a few elk with a .54 and one with a .58. I always go for the lungs. It's a big area, and you only need to damage one to bring them down. Even with a quartering front or rear angle, you can sneak a round into the lungs. Except for one botched shot I made, I can't remember an elk going over 20 yards after taking a lung hit. You can't count on a lung shot anchoring them right there, but they won't go far, and you can usually hear them hit the ground.

In my opinion, only a head, or spine shot will knock them down in their tracks every time.

There are web sites that show the anatomy of elk. I suggest you study them if you are not already familiar with the organ placement. You may be surprized at how big the lung area is. Easy and deadly target. Hope this helps. Bill

 

[Vaino]

Have shot a few elk w/ a .54 and all were lung shots and the furthest one traveled after being hit was 40 yds. The longest shot was at a big cow at 107 paced off yds...the PRB entered the ribs, through the lungs and was found just under the skin of the opposite shoulder...it was flattened to the size of a quarter. The cow went 30 yds after the shot. The load was a PRB in front of 120 grs 2F and the zero was 100 yds....Good luck....Fred

 

[Coffeecup]

I've had decent luck on elk by aiming at the offside shoulder through the vitals. With a good load, this has been adequate to ventilate one or both lungs depending on the angle, and if I do it right the offside shoulder will be broken as well. I've not tried it with a conical (other than bullets in BPCR) but it works well with a round ball.

 

[4given]

It sounds like a double lung shot is the resounding favorite answer! This is the same spot I would choose if I were using a high powered centerfire rife.

 

[silly goose]

Hard to keep keepin on with holes in the lungs, favorite shot for whitetails, only big game I've taken. Last year were my first two with blackpowder, both double lung, and both about 40-50 yards til pile up. I like that.

 

[longcruise]

I would avoid the head and neck shot scenario. The actual vital targets in the head and neck are not very large and if not hit correctly the animal might take weeks to die.

 

[mga2588]

go with the double lung shot, its the quickest way to knock the air out of them and with no air u loose a heart beat.

 

[Bill Hall]

I would avoid the head and neck shot scenario. The actual vital targets in the head and neck are not very large and if not hit correctly the animal might take weeks to die.

100% in agreement. I once shot a nice 5x5 right between the eyes at about 50 yards with a .54 round ball. All I had to aim at was his head, so I figured it would either be a complete miss, or his brains would be splattered all over the place. Well, that brain is harder to hit than I thought. At the sound of the shot, he hit the ground, flipped over twice, then bounced right back on his feet. Ended up taking him out with a double lung shot.

Turns out that the "right between the eyes" shot is under the brain, and nothing but solid bone to soak up the energy of the ball.

If I'm presented with a perfect head shot again, I may take it, just might aim a little higher. But I will never pass up a good lung shot. Works every time.

I would never take a neck shot. Too much hair to determine exactly where that neckbone is located. If the bone is missed, yep, we're talking a long slow death. Bill

 

[4given]

I have shot many deer in the head & neck with a centerfire but never an elk. You are right the neck on the elk is a lot different with lots of "hangy down" parts! :grin:

 

[Kentuckywindage]

why are head/neck shots being discussed? Pretty stupid IMO to aim at such a small target when you have a sure kill shot with lungs.

Use a conical if you're worried about round ball.

 

[hawk]

here

are a few charts to help see what is going on under the hide.

hope this helps

http://www.inberg.ca/hunting_essentials/elk_anatomy_&_shot_placement.htm

 

[Bill Hall]

I mentioned head and spine shots only in a theoretical context, as the only shot placement that will "drop 'em in their tracks", and the topic just kinda progressed from there. I think the original poster understands that, as do most of us here. If the lung area is out in the open, it would be folly to take any other shot, especially for a beginner muzzleloader hunter.

Now, Greenmountainboy has posted some pics where he has taken elk with heartshots. And I believe Roundball has taken many deer with perfect heartshots. But that takes skill, discipline, and experience. Not a suggested shot for a new muzzleloader hunter, especially when the lungs are a sure thing. Bill

 

[4given]

I am a VERY proficent shot with a centerfire & rim fire rifles and handguns. I have been an avid shooter & hunter for 48 years. Dad taught me to shoot a .22 when I was six.

It's just this muzzleloader thing that is new to me. If I can find a decent load and practice with the rifle, I am confident I can put the shot where I want it as long as I keep the distance reasonable. What I am uncertain about is the terminal performance of the bullet in this case. I know what to expect when I shoot an elk in the lungs with a Hornady SST or in the onside shoulder with a heavy bonded bullet in my 7 mag. I know what a 100 gr bullet out of my .243 does to a whitetail then I shoot one in the head, neck, lungs or heart. But a big heavy slow lead bullet? I know that is a whole different ball game.
Sounds like a lung shot is the way to go with the muzzy then. Maybe with a bit of luck it will break the off side shoulder as well if the angle is right. I know I will get a little meat damage but it will be worth it if it puts it down quicker.

 

[longcruise]

Given your history with modern projectiles, I'll simply say that you are looking for the same results with an ml projectile. Go for the same vital areas in the chest and use a bullet that will penetrate.

A .54 round ball will give adequate penetration on elk out to 100 yards if the initial velocity is adequate. IMO, that means 80 grains and up of 2f or 3f.

Since you elect to use conicals, I'll suggest one that does not have a hollow point. A severely expanded .54 conical could give up some penetration when you need it. I would suggest a flat point with a good sized meplat like the Lyman Great Plains bullet (gotta buy the mold.

Think of this; when you shoot an elk with a .270 or 06, you are hoping your bullet will expand to, say, twice it's original diameter and retain as much weight as possible to maintain penetration. So you are asking a 150 or 180 grain bullet with an impacted diameter of .50 to .60 to penetrate the vitals for a clean humane kill. As you already know, with good bullet selection, that is exactly what will happen.

Now consider your ml conical; It already measures .54 inch! Why would you want or need it to expand any larger? Your ml conical is hitting the animal with a diameter that will create a good wound channel and if it does not mushroom, it will maintain sectional density and penetrate well. It does not need expansion or additional frontal diameter to do it's work.

We have endless PRB vs conical discussions on this board. I'm not wanting to address that. Just trying to suggest how a good ml conical will perform terminally.

All the expanding ml conicals with hollow points, etc are sold to people who are looking for the same features in their ml bullet as they are trained to look for in the modern bullet.

Actually, the expanding modern CF rifle bullet is an attempt to duplicate the performance of the large heavy and slow lead slugs of the 19th century.

 

[Bill Hall]

What Marmotslayer said. :thumbsup:

Just as an add on, you may be surprized at the identical damage caused by lungs shots with a muzzleloader, as compared to a hit with a modern rifle. I've never hunted with a conical, so I'm speaking of round balls. They turn the lungs into jelly, just as if hit by an '06, only without all that bloodshot meat around the ribs. It amazed me with the first elk I shot through the lungs. I figured there would be a hole through the lungs, and the elk would run off, taking all my tracking skill and patience to recover. Nope, the cow made a short semi-circle, then danced on her front legs, and dropped. I was swishing the lung residue out of her chest with cupped hands. That was using a .54 RB, 100 grains ffg, at 40-50 yards. (long time ago, trying to remember) :surrender:

I love those round balls! Bill

 

[Robby]

With a hole through the bellows, the fire goes out!
Robby

 

[4given]

Thanks for your thoughful response. Actually I have the Great Plains HP only because that is all they had at my local Cabela's. Well they did have powerbelt but I didn't want to go there.

I am familier with the wide meplat bullets that the handgun hunting crowd is using now like the LBT. The idea is that the wide flat surface and the "sharp" edged will cause more trauma. Many of those guys have abandoned the JHP.

Should work for ML bullets too. The ballistics are similer.

 

[Kapow]

DO NOT use a hollow point hornady on elk. I had seriously poor performance with them on whitetail size deer. As suggested they expand way too quickly which is a real shame as they are accurate as hell.

If I had to choose between a roundball and that great plains hornady I would choose the PRB everytime with a minimum of 90gn charge. A better projectile might be the Thompson Centre maxi ball which shoot to about the same point of impact from my Lyman GPH.