.54 FFg or FFFg

[juancho]

I went to the range and put this one to the test.
I used Goex FFg and FFFg (the only ones available to me), and put many loads thru the crony.
The gun is my Pedersoli jager .54 60/1 twist.
Same point of aim at 25 yds amd the result was a 1.5" ragged hole.more than 100 rounds were fired and had 4 misfires due to not cleaning the vent hole.The flint was repositioned once by moving it just a touch to the side.The barrel is 28" long.
The patches .018 lubed with bore butter and the RB 222gr from a .530 Lee mold.

FFg
15 gr 530fps 138fpe 9.2fpe/gr
30 gr 862fps 182fpe 12.2fpe/gr
40 gr 964fps 458fpe 11.4fpe/gr
50 gr 1062fps 556fpe 11.1fpe/gr
60 gr 1200fps 710fpe 11.8fpe/gr
70 gr 1268fps 792fpe 11.3fpe/gr
80 gr 1363fps 916fpe 11.4 fpe/gr
90 gr 1452fps 1039fpe 11.5fpe/gr
100 gr 1549fps 1183fpe 11.8fpe/gr

after that I switched to FFFg

15 gr 608fps 182fpe 12.1fpe/gr
30 gr 958fps 452fpe 15.1fpe/gr
40 gr 1079fps 574fpe 14.3fpe/gr
50 gr 1256fps 778fpe 15.5fpe/gr
60 gr 1345fps 892fpe 14.8fpe/gr
70 gr 1433fps 1012fpe 14.5fpe/gr
80 gr 1530fps 1154fpe 14.4fpe/gr
90 gr 1628fps 1306fpe 14.5fpe/gr
100 gr 1692fps 1411fpe 14.1fpe/gr
110 gr 1756fps 1520fpe 13.8fpe/gr
120 gr 1812fps 1619fpe 13.5fpe/gr

You can see the diference between both powders and there is a point when it looks as if you don't gain much in speed , but the power curve keeps going up allmost the same.
From this I can see that I get aprox. 11.5 fpe for every grain of FFg and 14 or so for every grain of FFFg for the same price.
On every shot I used the same powder in the main charge and the pan and I cannot tell the diference.
I still have to do testing to see what the gun likes best, but as it is now ,from 60 gr and up I can get a 2.5" group at 50 yds.
In contrast, with my .45 loaded with only 20gr I shot a 5 shot group at 50 yds that can completly be covered with a quarter, but hit .5" low from POI. That is my squirrel load for the .45.
What do you guys use on your .54?

 

[longcruise]

Your numbers come real close to the ones I get with a .54. Most will not realize it, but the data you posted is far more useful than refering to some of the handbooks out there.

I shoot 3f in my .54 too. Not for the added velocity or economy so much as to make it all one powder for all the guns on the rack from .36 up to .54.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I have a .54 T/C Hawkens and two .54 GPRs. I shoot FFg in all of them. FFFg shoots fine, but FFg gives me tighter groups. A friend of mine has a .54 CVA Hawkens and he shoots nice, tight groups with FFFg. All depends on what your rifle likes.

 

[aeatwood]

One of the reasons that heavy loads of 2f (or 1f) shoot so well in some guns is that as long as the patch and lube are up to the job, the velocity just gets more and consistent as the velocity per grain levels out.

Note that the energy per grain used levels out and is still going up steadily for the maximum loads used. So much for the "excess powder over 100gr is just blown out the muzzle" theory.

Alan

 

[Rifleman1776]

Interesting info. Thanks.
In my .54 Jaeger I use 70 gr. 3Fg at the range and and 77 gr. in the woods.
BTW: for the curious amongst you, the 77 grains is what a goat horn charger that was given to me as a gift from my wife loads. Enneymore questions? :wink:

 

[wattlebuster]

I've tried my 54s with both powders an mine like the ffg best but I would not hesitate to use fffg if the need arose :thumbsup:

 

[hoochiepapa]

I use 2f min my .54 'cause that's all I've ever used. No reason to change.

 

[smoothy]

I use 90 grains of 2f in my 42" 54 caliber rifle. Now that I also have a chronograph it will get a workout and maybe post them. Will have to wait for deer season to be over.

 

[nchawkeye]

I use 80grs FFF Goex in my .54 with it's 38 inch Rayle barrel...

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

The Pedersoli Jaeger is a surprisingly great gun, isn't it? And this is great work. Thanks!

 

[mr.flintlock]

I shoot 3-f in all of my black powder guns. From 32 cal up to 62 smooth bore and everything in between. I get more shots to the pound of powder.

 

[hanshi]

My .54 is a 33" percussion and thrives on 3F. 60grns is a target load and I've killed my only deer with it using 110grns 3F. That heavy load will really shoot.

 

[DrLaw]

I have not as of yet used FFFG in my Jager, using only the FFG out of worry that the same weight of 3F would build up too much pressure.

I guess it doesn't, does it.

The Doc is out and wondering now.

 

[rr11]

Several years back I discovered that in my .54 the groups were tighter with 3F. I have killed 6 or 7 deer with 70gr 3F. Boller room shots a pass through. recovered one ball off side under the skin. The load has plenty of power on deer.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have not as of yet used FFFG in my Jager, using only the FFG out of worry that the same weight of 3F would build up too much pressure.

I guess it doesn't, does it.

The Doc is out and wondering now.

If yer gun is sound, don't fret over the pressure issue. Wat works is wat counts.
Some time on the bench testing loads with both granualtions is what is needed to answer yer questions.
For many years the ml gospel was 3Fg up to .50 cal and only 2Fg over. Now, it is use what works. Do your testing and don't get crazy with excessive loads.

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

I notice in both powders, the fpe/gr peaks at about 50-60 grains. Were the charges measured by weight or by volume?

 

[rancher]

All I shoot out of my .54 GPR is FFg Goex. Usually 80 grains under a PRB.

 

[juancho]

By volume.I don't think it would change much by wieght,but I could try that next time and if I see any big diference I'll let you guys know.

 

[longcruise]

By volume.I don't think it would change much by wieght,but I could try that next time and if I see any big diference I'll let you guys know.

The various brands and granulations of powder, when thrown from an identical volume measure, show very large differences between volume grains and weight grains. My fixed 90 grain volume measure throws a weight of 97 grains of fff scheutzen. This measure was meticulously made to throw exactly 90 grains of Scheutzen 3f by volume.

Here is a comparison of the actual weights of several powder brands and granulations.

BP Weight Comparisons

From an RCBS measure at an arbitrary setting.

Graf 3f
55.9
55.5
55.5
55.3
-------
55.55

Goex 2f
51.1
51.7
51.3
51.4
-------
51.37

Goex 3f
52.2
52.1
52.5
52.2
--------
52.25

Elephant 2f
60.2
60.4
60.4
60.1
---------
60.27

Swiss 1.5f
55.9
56.1
56.4
56.2
------
56.15

Swiss 2f
57.4
57.2
57.2
57.4
-------
57.30

Pyrodex RS
37.0
37.1
37.5
36.8
-------
37.10

If you have a powder scale handy, it would be simple for you to determine how much your volume measure of powder weighs. In any case, I'd expect your results to be the same in a linear sense while the actual numbers will probably vary.

 

[Fred_Dwyer]

but I could try that next time and if I see any big diference I'll let you guys know.

No need to go through all that, Marmotslayer put up some good info. I knew finer granulations were heavier by volume; I didn't know by how much.
I misplaced my measure, or dropped it the range else I would have just checked it my ownself.
Clearly the increase in weight of the FFFg is only about 1/10 of the velocity change from FFg.

My reference to the peak fpe/gr was because that made me ponder the Davenport Formula. Your data does depict a peak in energy utilization, then a steady decline. But unless your gun has a 22 inch barrel, that peak is at a lower charge weight than the formula predicts. That is presuming the best energy utilization equates to best accuracy, which clearly is a bad assumption.

Only brought that up because we haven't had a good 8 page thread for a while. :rotf: