.54 Flinter - Patched Ball - 60 Grains GOEX FFFg - How Far?

[Semisane]

With a load of 60 grains GOEX FFFg under a .530 patched ball in a flintlock - and assuming good hunting accuracy at every range - how far out would you be comfortable shooting a Whitetail in the heart/lung area?

 

[Robin Camp]

Not very far, probably not over 50 yards. 60 grains is a woefully inadiquate load for that large of caliber. I load 60 grains in my .45. I load 90 grains in my .50, and 100 grains in my .54 cal Grreat Plains flintlock.....Robin

 

[paulvallandigham]

As big a ball that a .54 fires, I think you will find working with powder charges in the 80-90 grain area will give you more confidence. Hodgdon lists 70 grains of powder as giving 1401 fps at the muzzle. If you calculate a loss of 25% of the velocity at 50 yards, you are down to about 1150 fps at that yardage. It will kill a deer, and you probably are good to 75 yards, but you would be expecting much at 100 yards. A good hit will kill the deer, but may not penetrate both sides on a broadside shot. The deer might not die until it bleeds out, and you will have a long track, without much blood to recover the deer.

A light load like you propose would work for mountain men like Jim Bridger, but his tracking skills were legendary, and he used light loads so he could recover his ball to be recast, and to limit how much noise his gun made, to alert hostile Indians in the area that he was there. Neither of those issues are relevant to modern sport hunting, so I have to suggest you try a larger powder charge in that caliber gun. :thumbsup:

 

[Semisane]

Well, I sure wasn't thinking anything like 100 yards. My "deer load" is 95 grains and that will do for 100 yards. But I sometimes just wander around with a 60 grain load looking to pop a few rabbits in the noggin. So I was wondering, what if I see a nice buck when I'm rabbit hunting? How close would you want to be before you took the shot?

 

[BrownBear]

I wouldn't have the least hesitation at 75. Of course I don't shoot deer at much over 50 any more anyway.

According to Lyman, 60 grains of 3f is going to drive that 230 grain RB at 1337 from a 32" barrel. I can't tell you how many deer I've whacked with a 44 mag handgun launching a 240 grain bullet at around 1300 fps. All were one shot kills ranging out to 75 yards. Heck, I've even whacked a few from 30-50 yards out using the same bullet at around 800 fps from 44 specials. All those were one shot kills, too. And I never recovered a bullet from any of them.

A hunk of lead flying through the air is a hunk of lead flying through the air. If you put it in the right spot from a ML, I have no doubt it will do approximately the same job as a hunk of lead at similar velocity out of my pistol.

BTW- My 54 cal load is 80 grains of 3f, not because I think I need the extra power at the ranges I shoot, but because the rifle happens to like that load.

 

[jtmattison]

50 yards or less. Less being better.

HD

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am probably the wrong guy to ask about rabbit hunting. I hunted them wit a club when I was a kid! I still think using anything more than a .22 pistol is overkill, and if you can't get within 10 feet of the rabbit, its your fault, not the rabbit's. I have shot them when hunting Upland game( birds) with a shotgun, but the longest shot I have ever made on a rabbit with my shotgun is about 25 yards. That was a snap shot at a rabbit that was diving over the edge of a drainage ditch heading to his hole on the side of the bank. Until he jumped, I could not see him in the tall grass we were hunting for pheasants. All I saw was this "snake" trail as the grass blades were knocked over as he ran for the ditch.

I took Tom Brown's Basic Survival School class back in 1989, and finally learned the proper ways to throw a stick to kill game, and injure larger game, and even people if I had to. My stalking skills today are much better than they were when I was a kid, and they have to be, because I have a bad knee that does not let me run much at all.
And, slipping a .22 revolver into my back pocket while I go " hunting " for rabbits or whatever still puts a lot of thrill into the hunting.

If I was going to hunt rabbits with a rifle, or shotgun, I would use the same rule: Limit the distance to that which you know is close enough to make a good clean killing shot. 25 yds. is a long distance for either a rifle or shotgun, using open sights, considering the difficulty seeing rabbits against the typical Fall brush background.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

60gr 3f is equal to 70gr 2F. i have a .54cal cva mountain rifle that shoots excellent with 70gr pyrodex rs and i'd easily use it for 100 yards.

 

[Semisane]

Well that's interesting an all Paul, and I do admire your skill with a club - and a keyboard. :wink: But what do you think is the max range for a broadside mid-chest shot on a deer with 60 grains of FFFg under a .530 ball? I already know it's sufficient for head shots on rabbits. :haha:

 

[PreglerD]

Hello to Germany,

belonging to the german law about shooting proofment if guns you are allowed to load up to 132 grs of FFFg bp in a .54 cal ML longarm. All guns of this cal. which come to trade here must stand the pressure of this load.

Regards

Kirrmeister

 

[xxgrampa]

semisane,

the best way, is the way i did it, back when i was young..

every deer you take, should have powder burns on the hide. long barrels were always a pain, you have to pull the muzzle back so you can shoot the deer..

good luck to you and get real close..

..ttfn..grampa..

 

[paulvallandigham]

Semisane: The weight of that .54 ball has more to do with how much penetration you get on a soft-skinned animal like a deer, than velocity. I am sure that the ball will penetrate and kill a deer at ranges beyond 100 yards, with that light load. However, ball drop becomes a problem as the range increases, and many shooters just don't know their guns well enough to know how much to " hold over " their sights in order to place that ball where it must strike to kill the deer. I have seen enough deer with broken legs brought into deer check stations to prove that.

So, the question probably should be, HOW FAR are you capable of hitting a deer with that light load? I met a man deer hunting one year who showed me where he was standing when he shot a deer the last day of the season, late in the afternoon, the prior year, and pointed across a ravine to where the deer was standing. The distance was at least 150 yards! He dropped the deer with a shot to its spine! Pure luck, but he was still " Proud " of the shot he had taken. He was shooting a smoothbore shotgun, no rear sight, and shooting foster style slugs. He used the same gun the day before he described this long shot, to kill a deer at about 10 feet! in very dense new growth.

The typical Whitetail is going to show about 10-12 inches of chest on a broadside shot. A Center hit will be 6 inches up or down, then. That light load is probably going to drop at least 4 inches at 100 yards, and maybe more. You can add or subtract inches depending on whether you sight the gun to hit POA centered, or are using a 6 o'clock hold to get a center hit. Throw in range estimation errors, poor light conditions due to weather, and time of day, or fog, and missing the deer at 100 yards becomes a real possibility. That is before we consider human factors unique to the shooter, such as flinches, "buck fever", poor mounting of the gun due to excitement, etc.

The reason more powerful loads are recommended is because the shooters who recommend them have been through the experience, and understand the value of the flattest shooting trajectory they can get for any caliber rifle they shoot. Overcoming all these unplanned for conditions by having a gun that can shoot further, and still hit a small target, in spite of them, is what gets the job done, ethically.

 

[Headhunter]

I know for a fact that a 50 cal, shooting 50 grains of FFFG Goex will put a bucks nose in the dirt at 50 yards on multiple occations.

I would hope to think a 54 would do the same. And would not hesitate to shoot one at 75 or 100. I do, however, load and hunt with 80 grains.

If you have a good sight picture, and you know your rifle, and you know it will hit, A 54 will kill at 100 with 60 grains of powder. I sure wouldn't want to bet agains a man with such intentions.

As a matter of fact, I would rather have a 54 shooting 60 grains at 100 than a 45 shooting 60 grains at 75.

HH

 

[paulvallandigham]

We pretty much agree, except I have fired that heavy load in a 45 and I don't want someone shooting at me at 75 yds with such a load. Yes, the .45 loses a lot of velocity past 50 yards, but its also killed a lot of game out at 100 yds, too. It all depends on who is shooting the gun, and if they know their gun and powder charges, and where they hit at the longer ranges. :hmm: :hatsoff: