.54 Round Ball Hunting Load

[Bob J]

I've always believed that one should use a good medium stout to heavy load as long as the gun was accurate (85-100 grains 3f or 90 - 110 grains 2f). I'm talking deer hunting. But my new flintlock really likes 70 grains of 3f. I might try heavier loads later but wanted to get some opinions. The builder of my rifle made a clean kill at 90 yards with 70 grains 3f in a .54. I looked up the load in the Lyman Black Powder Handbook and Loading Manual;

70 grains 3f Goex, .535 ball
muzzle energy - 963 ft lb
100 yards - 456 ft lb

90 grains 3f Goex, .535 ball
muzzle energy - 1111 ft lb
100 yards - 487 ft lb

I'm wondering if a deer at 40 - 75 yards would know the difference?

 

[roundball]

I'm wondering if a deer at 40 - 75 yards would know the difference?

The very fact that you're even asking the question is why I don't stop short and use light to medium powder charges...I use max or near max charges in every caliber I deer hunt with...the 10 pointer might be standing at 115yds and I don't want to even hesitate about the powder charge in the barrel.

And I'd say it the same way but mean it in reverse: The deer that are closer won't know the difference...so I use:

90grns 3F
Oxyoke Wonderwad
.018" pillow ticking
Hornady .530

 

[Plains99]

I have a Dixie Jaeger and it is most accurate with 70 grains of FFg both for conicals and round balls... and I hunt whitetails with it at that charge level. Knocked down a large doe last fall at nearly 100 yards with the patched round ball load. She ran a bit then died. But if the difference between a 70 grain load and say a 100 grain load is only an inch or two at a hundred yards, I'd use the heavier load for the flexibility. I think you have to balance velocity and accuracy... and save the light load for shooting contests.

 

My own personal prejudice is to select the most accurate load that at least attains hunting trajectories. As you see from your figures the extra 20 gr of powder gets you only 6 or 7 % increase in energy at 100 yds. If both loads are accurate then the choice is yours, but why use more powder than you need? If the higher charge is the most accurate then go with it and same with the lower. I personally find that 75 gr ffg is accurate in my .54, but I have not had the chance to hunt with it yet. Printed ballistics suggest to me that it will work fine--I'll let you know, hopefully after this season.

 

[Hoyt]

Since I'm not a pure traditionalist at this point in life..I am more into hunting period. I hunt with whatever I enjoy. Right now (gun-wise) it's flintlocks, modern handguns and rifles...this season it will be flintlocks and some long range rifle hunting. The reason I explained is I have certain areas I use flintlock and certain areas I don't. The areas I do I don't get in spots where I'll get more than a 70yds shot at the very most. Therefore I work out my loads to be 2" under or over up to 75yds. If by some freak accident I got a 100yd or so shot I'd aim at the top his back for double lung.

54cal. 90grs. 3F
.535" RB w/.015"patch

 

[Stumpkiller]

I think you have to balance velocity and accuracy...

I agree. When I set out to develop a hunting load I work within a range that I know is adequate and "tweak" the components within that range until I get as much accuracy as I can. I have two favorite hunting rifles (non-muzzleloaders) that are not particularly accurate when compared to varmint or target rigs, but will keep all their shots well within the vitals. They offer speed, handling, balance and reliability to offset their failings at the bench. There's never a bench when you need one in the woods, anyway. I also position myself where long range shots won't be offered. One of my muzzleloaders took me, no exaggeration, over 700 firings before I was able to find a load that would get inside 6" at 50 yards with a round ball from a rest. At one point I set it aside for a couple years because I was so disgusted. Now it is my favorite percussion rifle for deer and I carry it during regular gun season. It is (relatively) light, has a good single trigger and shoots very well offhand. I can pretty much stand and put 5 shots in 2" at 50 yards on demand. That is more than adequate for a deer rifle and I would still be comfortable hunting with one that did 4" at 50 yards (offhand).

It is always "the right thing" to get as much accuracy as possible out of a rifle, provided you don't stray into unsafe levels or fall below minimum performance goals.

Personally, I would not be comfortable using a 70 gr 3F .54 load on deer at 100 yards. My loads are in the mid 80's for my .54 (either with 2F or 3F), and even then I have to have everything just so before I would attempt a 100 yard shot. 40 yards would be reasonable. Which is not to say that a .54 with 70 gr won't kill all the deer it meets at 90 or 100 yards. It's just that I would not be comfortable . . . and I don't take the shots that don't feel comfortable to me. :winking:

Not to dispute Uncle Lyman, but I'm mighty incredulous that 20gr of FFFg produces only 31 ft lbs difference at 100 yards. :hmm:

 

[Alberta Black]

I find that with my .54 caplocks 90 grains of 2F gives me all the power and accuracy that I can use.

The limiting factor for me is not MV, energy or trajectory but rather my ability to hit the chest cavity of a deer from hunting positions. For me this is about 75 yards braced on a monopod and about 50 yards off hand unsupported. Running or walking deer out of the question for me.

I make every effort to put myself in positions where I only have a 50 yard shot. At 50 yards I could probably get away with a 70 grain charge but I prefer the extra insurance of 90 grains.

Richard

 

[CG6018]

I've found the following load for my .54 cal. "Yorktown", made by Brad Emig, to work just fine on our Pennsylvania whitetails.
85 grains of FFFg
.535 round ball
.015 patch
I doubt that I've ever taken a 100 yard shot at a Pa. deer with this rifle. Not that the rifle couldn't handle that yardage, but my old eyes are more comfortable under 75 yards, and my guaranteed, "meat making" range, is under 50 yards.


:hmm:

 

[Bob J]

Thanks to everyone for their opinions on this. There's plenty of time between now and hunting season to work on some load development. I already have a good target/smaller game/varmint load with 70 grains 3f. Tomorrow I'll start with some heavier 2f and 3f loads and see what she likes.

 

[Stumpkiller]

There's plenty of time between now and hunting season to work on some load development.

And bless you for taking that time. :hatsoff:

One of my pet peeves is the "departmental" and other sporting goods stores that run bow and gun sales weeks before the big game seasons open. They should run them six or nine months before so the new owners can practice and get their loads & techniques down. I'm enough of a crank I even told the manager what I thought about it and why at Dicks. No more effect than howling at the moon. Same for trying to get them to carry percussion caps in the winter, spring and summer. No dice. I have no doubt some sports take to the woods with guns that have been bore sighted and never before shot. One muzzleloading site even has/had a feller who bragged that he did just that with his in-line bought on the way to a hunting camp and harvested a deer. Grrrrrrrrrr. :cursing:

 

[roundball]

On that note, I remember seeing at least one of Knights "blister-pac" models advertised that way, that it was already zeroed at 200yds with such & such powder and sabot/bullets included in the blister-pac...that's really taking the "I just want another week to kill a deer" mentality to the extreme...

 

[shmrck1]

I'm wondering if a deer at 40 - 75 yards would know the difference?

Dixie Flinter,
As long as you do your part, my
own personal opinion is that 70grns would most
certainly do the trick inside 75 yards. I think
you will find that the more you shoot your new
rifle, the more you can increase your charge,
with the same accuracy as 70 grns. I may well be
in a minority here but I would not sacifice
accuracy for power or fps numbers.Just MHO.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[roundball]

I'm wondering if a deer at 40 - 75 yards would know the difference?

Dixie Flinter,
As long as you do your part, my
own personal opinion is that 70grns would most
certainly do the trick inside 75 yards. I think
you will find that the more you shoot your new
rifle, the more you can increase your charge,
with the same accuracy as 70 grns. I may well be
in a minority here but I would not sacifice
accuracy for power or fps numbers.Just MHO.
snake-eyes :hmm:

When there are discussions like this, one of the problems is the lack of clarity on what's meant by a generalized term of "accuracy"...probably means different things to different people.

In my experiences with all my rifled muzzleloaders for example, I can say that I can shoot max loads without sacrificing accuracy...but what that may actually mean is that a 1.5" group with target loads opens up to 2.0" with max loads, and as far as I'm concerned for hunting, that's not a sacrifice in accuracy...the difference is irrelevant and the additional velocity, power, flatter trajectory, etc trump that minor difference.

On the other hand, when I tried setting up my new .54cal Flint smoothbore just last fall, I couldn't use more than 70grns 3F or I'd start getting a wild flyer per group that was 4-5 inches off to the side...to me that would have been an unacceptable sacrifice of accuracy so I held at 70grns until after hunting season when I finally figured out what was causing it.

So for me, I always prefer max/near-max charges for hunting as long as any change in accuracy...if there is a change in accuracy...is so slight it's insignificant for hunting...ergo, not a sacrifice in accuracy as such.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Roundball: I think if you ever actually used a chronograph on those " maximum " loads, you would find that all you are doing is throwing powder out the barrel on the ground, and increasing the felt recoil of your gun. Penetration in flesh is a function of the weight of the ball, or bullet, not its velocity. The heavy ball you hunt with will penetrate a deer completely going 800fps just as well as it will going 1400 fps. But, you are going to have better accuracy- yes, the 1-1 1/2 " kind of accuracy- with the lighter load, and a chronograph will show you that the velocity to powder charge ratio is working for you with the lighter load, and against you with the maximum load.

 

[Bob J]

Well it didn't take long - yesterday at the range I tried some 2f and 3f loads. As I mentioned, 70 grains 3f and she'll shoot a ragged hole at 50 yards and POI is ON. 90 grains and its a good group about 2 " high. Believe that will work well for deer/hog hunting. I think a 42" barrel will fully utilize a 90 grain charge. No more excuses for shooting from the bench! :haha: Plan on spending the rest of my pre-season range trips practicing offhand with the lighter target load. Due to family, work, and class, might not get as many range trips in as I would like, so plan on dry-firing at home, then some pan-flashing to practice hold-thru.

 

[roundball]

Sounds like you've got it in the groove!
:hatsoff:

 

[Bob J]

Sounds like you've got it in the groove!
:hatsoff:

In no small part thanks to all the helpful advice from members of the 'Forum, yourself included :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Plains99]

Far more common than you think, Stumpkiller. Some of the companies I work with talk about callers to their product support people who never loaded or fired the thing before going into the field with it. They walked into the store, picked up a beginner's pack and went to the deer field and loaded it. Then they called in to complain how... "Inaccurate, unreliable, poorly made, ect." it was. And as you said earlier, I've tested guns that were very difficult to come up with a decent load for. Everything seemed right but the darned thing was just persnickity. My Jaeger is load sensative and simply doesn't like heavy powder charges. It would make a wonderful 50-70 yard whitetail gun though.... just is a bit weak for long range plains hunting.

 

[shmrck1]

roundball,
You are absolutely right about accuracy, its a relative term. In my case I am
very happy to get 3 rounds, in a 3 or 4" circle
offhand at 50yards. I'm just a hunter though and
not a competive shooter, where cloverleafs and
less are common.....Any others like me around?
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[Old Charlie]

With my old eyes and shakey hands , I would be very happy to shoot that good every time. But it ain't gona happen. I now try to get a rest to shoot from when hunting. I would only take an off hand shot at very close range. Ain't the golden years great?
Old Charlie